Brexit

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr K

The backstop was our idea. And why are your posts in a silly colour.?

Incorrect, the backstop for N.I. was the EU’s idea, the backstop encompassing the U.K. was May’s solution to ensuring it didn’t isolate N.I.

It’s impressive after all this time you still don’t know what you’re talking about.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

The EU originally proposed a backstop that would mean Northern Ireland staying in the EU customs union, large parts of the single market and the EU VAT system. Its chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, continually emphasised that this backstop could only apply to Northern Ireland.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northe...itics-44615404

The “backstop” provision of the draft agreement which was rejected by the UK parliament this week was always a political measure designed to protect the interests of the British and Irish citizens of Northern Ireland.

It was a UK proposal, not one tabled by Ireland or the EU, and reflected a belated recognition that Northern Ireland remains part of the UK, and that the welfare of its citizens should be a concern for the UK government

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...61566?mode=amp

Surprised you quoting the Biased Brussels Corporation, as we know they just make things up !

---------- Post added at 21:34 ---------- Previous post was at 21:23 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

Six more months of the same circular arguments.

I’m not coming back on here until the status quo has changed and there’s actually something new to discuss.

So what's changed ?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr K

So what's changed ?

The Brexit party appeared which has mixed things up a bit, also I like to police the BS merchants.

---------- Post added at 08:49 ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

[COLOR="DarkGreen"]
Surprised you quoting the Biased Brussels Corporation, as we know they just make things up !

Surprised you quote a piece from an Irish journalist that offers nothing to support his statement.

Here’s a more thorough piece of work.

Before the term “backstop” was coined, the bullet point in the negotiations over the Irish issue that came from the EU was this:

including by ensuring no emergence of regulatory divergence

That wording is what gave birth to the backstop and it was an EU position.

Have a read and enlighten yourself

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/...tony-connelly/

[Angua]

One thing May got absolutely right, was a controlled and measured exit from 40+ years in the EU would be the least damaging to the economy.

Sadly, the whole Brexit issue has been taken over by the "instant gratification" of a crash out exit. The winners will be the disaster capitalists, the losers will be anyone on a restricted income.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Angua

One thing May got absolutely right, was a controlled and measured exit from 40+ years in the EU would be the least damaging to the economy.

Sadly, the whole Brexit issue has been taken over by the "instant gratification" of a crash out exit. The winners will be the disaster capitalists, the losers will be anyone on a restricted income.

If we do leave without a deal, there will be a lot of pain. Then the recriminations will start, Brexiters had better start of thinking about someone else to blame, as those that supported them will want answers. The tragedy is that the main protagonists Farrage, Bozza, JRM et al will be some of the few to be ok/benefit, quelle surprise ! The masses however will come after them with burning torches - they'll probably emigrate to France like that other keen Brexiter Nigel Lawson....

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Angua

One thing May got absolutely right, was a controlled and measured exit from 40+ years in the EU would be the least damaging to the economy.

Sadly, the whole Brexit issue has been taken over by the "instant gratification" of a crash out exit. The winners will be the disaster capitalists, the losers will be anyone on a restricted income.

There was nothing wrong in principle with the Withdrawal Agreement (apart from the backstop) which was only designed to be a temporary measure to help both sides with the transition. Provided that at the end of the two years we had a complete divorce from the EU with no strings, that was ok with me.

Whether the ERG has overplayed its hand, I'm not sure, but I guess we'll know some time before Christmas. Hopefully, the overwhelming win by the Brexit Party at the EU elections will send a message that Parliamentarians would be foolish to ignore, and we will then start making proper preparations to leave, with or without a deal.

---------- Post added at 10:55 ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

If we do leave without a deal, there will be a lot of pain. Then the recriminations will start, Brexiters had better start of thinking about someone else to blame, as those that supported them will want answers. The tragedy is that the main protagonists Farrage, Bozza, JRM et al will be some of the few to be ok/benefit, quelle surprise ! The masses however will come after them with burning torches - they'll probably emigrate to France like that other keen Brexiter Nigel Lawson....

The sky would not fall in if we left. I see you are still deploying your Project Fear arguments, Mr K. It's only those Remainers who won't accept the result that are promoting this view. These arguments are simply not accepted by Brexiteers and the other thinking people who just want the democratic will of the people to be enforced.

In the end, everyone will benefit from a clean Brexit, as we will take the maximum opportunities out there to increase the wealth of the country.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

There was nothing wrong in principle with the Withdrawal Agreement (apart from the backstop) which was only designed to be a temporary measure to help both sides with the transition. Provided that at the end of the two years we had a complete divorce from the EU with no strings, that was ok with me.

Whether the ERG has overplayed its hand, I'm not sure, but I guess we'll know some time before Christmas. Hopefully, the overwhelming win by the Brexit Party at the EU elections will send a message that Parliamentarians would be foolish to ignore, and we will then start making proper preparations to leave, with or without a deal.

---------- Post added at 10:55 ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 ----------



The sky would not fall in if we left. I see you are still deploying your Project Fear arguments, Mr K. It's only those Remainers who won't accept the result that are promoting this view. These arguments are simply not accepted by Brexiteers and the other thinking people who just want the democratic will of the people to be enforced.

In the end, everyone will benefit from a clean Brexit, as we will take the maximum opportunities out there to increase the wealth of the country.

And everyone in Toyland lived Happily Ever After !
Meanwhile back in the real world, Little England became an irrelevance, as it's aging population continued to blame everyone else on why Brexit went wrong...

Insouciance will only take you so far..eventually one has to get serious about where you are going in the future.Lack of planning can cause so much grief and recrimination further down the line.

Hope for the best but expect the worst isn't a bad maxim for life.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Insouciance will only take you so far..eventually one has to get serious about where you are going in the future.Lack of planning can cause so much grief and recrimination further down the line.

Hope for the best but expect the worst isn't a bad maxim for life.

Increased trade with more countries, free from EU restrictions, is where we should be going. I see no reason to be fearful of that.

I fear the EU imploding while we're still part of it. That's the scary scenario.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Increased trade with more countries, free from EU restrictions, is where we should be going. I see no reason to be fearful of that.

I fear the EU imploding while we're still part of it. That's the scary scenario.

That's along the lines of (and about as realistic as) "getting divorced isn't a problem - there's lots of attractive people out there who will want to go out with me". It doesn't matter how powerful/good looking you once were, it's how you are today that counts.

It's not that simple - the world is increasingly globalised, made up of large trading blocs, which have greater negotiating power over individual countries; the exceptions to this being the USA and China due to there large economic bases and populations.

If it's you against the world, bet on the world...

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Hugh

That's along the lines of (and about as realistic as) "getting divorced isn't a problem - there's lots of attractive people out there who will want to go out with me". It doesn't matter how powerful/good looking you once were, it's how you are today that counts.

It's not that simple - the world is increasingly globalised, made up of large trading blocs, which have greater negotiating power over individual countries; the exceptions to this being the USA and China due to there large economic bases and populations.

If it's you against the world, bet on the world...

Much better to stay in a failing relationship and make every one miserable Eh.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

That's along the lines of (and about as realistic as) "getting divorced isn't a problem - there's lots of attractive people out there who will want to go out with me". It doesn't matter how powerful/good looking you once were, it's how you are today that counts.

It's not that simple - the world is increasingly globalised, made up of large trading blocs, which have greater negotiating power over individual countries; the exceptions to this being the USA and China due to there large economic bases and populations.

If it's you against the world, bet on the world...

How come tiny Singapore is so successful, then? What about South Korea, Taiwan and Japan?

We are one of the world's largest economies and all you an see is the geographical area we occupy.

Britain is a force to be reckoned with and all you can see is doom and gloom.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

If it's you against the world, bet on the world...

Why are we “against” the world? We want to be “with” the world.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Why are we “against” the world? We want to be “with” the world.

We've got a funny way of showing it ! The EU are our largest trading partner and we're divorcing them.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Mr K

We've got a funny way of showing it ! The EU are our largest trading partner and we're divorcing them.

To regain our sovereignty.