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Windrush generation
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Old 19-04-2018, 12:52   #46
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Re: Windrush generation

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Originally Posted by Mr K View Post
You can blame politicians but we elect them and their policies. Seems to be the result of the general xenophobia in the British public
You do have a point here Mr K. The Conservatives were merely responding to concerns from the public that there were apparently too many illegal immigrants settling into this country.

It is a very fine line for any government to get this right, I tbink. At least TM is responding positively to this problem.
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Old 19-04-2018, 12:55   #47
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Re: Windrush generation

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
So do the databases exist? Or is it mainly down to physical paperwork, eg cards in a basement. Then there is the time it takes to send and receive letters and for anything to be processed.
But that's the thing isn't it.

If you bring it rules to say that landlords, employers etc need to check that someone has the right to live here, then surely you need to also create a thing that can be checked?
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Old 19-04-2018, 13:02   #48
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Re: Windrush generation

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Originally Posted by BenMcr View Post
Agreed, but that's the thing isn't it.

If you bring it rules to say that landlords, employers etc need to check that someone has the right to live here, then surely you need to also create a thing that can be checked?
And in order to do that you would have to get everybody to prove their status on paper. Which is what this is all about in the first place(allegedly). Strange that the issue has been around for decades potentially for ANYONE, but only now are certain people kicking up a fuss.
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Old 19-04-2018, 13:20   #49
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Re: Windrush generation

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
And in order to do that you would have to get everybody to prove their status on paper. Which is what this is all about in the first place(allegedly). Strange that the issue has been around for decades potentially for ANYONE, but only now are certain people kicking up a fuss.
The issue has been around, but I think that the requirement to check up front has only happened in the last decade or so.

But again, that's my point. If you change the rules so that the checks are required, surely you'd make sure that the records are accurate and easily available before you do it, and not after?

Unless of course you don't think through the full impact of the change and are doing it for good press and an 'easy win'.
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Old 19-04-2018, 13:46   #50
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Re: Windrush generation

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Originally Posted by BenMcr View Post
The issue has been around, but I think that the requirement to check up front has only happened in the last decade or so.

But again, that's my point. If you change the rules so that the checks are required, surely you'd make sure that the records are accurate and easily available before you do it, and not after?

Unless of course you don't think through the full impact of the change and are doing it for good press and an 'easy win'.
1996 Asylum and Immigration Act
Quote:
8 Restrictions on employment.
(1)Subject to subsection (2) below, if any person (“the employer”) employs a person subject to immigration control (“the employee”) who has attained the age of 16, the employer shall be guilty of an offence if—
...
9Entitlement to housing accommodation and assistance
(1)Each housing authority shall secure that, so far as practicable, no tenancy of, or licence to occupy, housing accommodation provided under the accommodation Part is granted to a person subject to immigration control unless he is of a class specified in an order made by the Secretary of State.
...
10Entitlement to child benefit
(2)The provision is as follows—
“ Persons subject to immigration control
No person subject to immigration control within the meaning of the Asylum and Immigration Act 1996 shall be entitled to child benefit for any week unless he satisfies prescribed conditions.”
I'm sure many other restrictions have been around for DECADES.

How do you build a central government database on these issues? Do you get people to prove it now or continuously collect data for the next 100 years before you can use the database.

Would you like people to have access to your bank account on the basis of a name and a date(eg date of birth or date of arrival)?
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Old 19-04-2018, 13:51   #51
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Re: Windrush generation

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
How do you build a central government database on these issues?
If you're controlling who is and isn't allowed to be in the UK, how do you do that without a database of that information?
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Old 19-04-2018, 13:58   #52
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Re: Windrush generation

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Originally Posted by BenMcr View Post
If you're controlling who is and isn't allowed to be in the UK, how do you do that without a database of that information?
You use documents.
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Old 19-04-2018, 14:28   #53
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Re: Windrush generation

National ID Card

OMG who said that?
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Old 19-04-2018, 14:31   #54
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Re: Windrush generation

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Originally Posted by techguyone View Post
National ID Card

OMG who said that?
A lot more than that what have to be tracked and monitored. The registration of ownerships of vehicles doesn't work, so why would anything else? Eg people get parking tickets for vehicles they sold years ago.
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Old 19-04-2018, 14:34   #55
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Re: Windrush generation

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Originally Posted by techguyone View Post
National ID Card

OMG who said that?
Scrapped within 100 days in 2010.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...pping-id-cards
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Old 19-04-2018, 15:16   #56
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Re: Windrush generation

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Originally Posted by BenMcr View Post
If you're controlling who is and isn't allowed to be in the UK, how do you do that without a database of that information?
Our failure to do just that is a good reason why we have so many illegal immigrants in this country.

The Windrush incident would not have happened if we had a reliable database. And let's face it, this fiasco should never have happened.
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Old 19-04-2018, 23:09   #57
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Re: Windrush generation

Quote:
Originally Posted by techguyone View Post
Quote:
The onus is on individuals to prove they were resident in the UK before 1 January 1973, the date the 1971 Immigration Act came into force. However, a key clause from 1999 legislation, which had provided longstanding Commonwealth residents with protection from enforced removal, was deleted from the 2014 Immigration Act. The government did not announce the removal of this clause, nor did it consult on the potential ramifications.


THIS is the bigger problem, nevermind LAB & CON squabbling about who did what. THIS is the issue, and it's a worrying one,. it shows a lack of due diligence and transparency on all sides.

With legislation like that slipping in, we're all farked. Where else has stuff been quietly erased...
Yep, this is the clause that I referred to earlier that was deleted in 2014.

---------- Post added at 22:07 ---------- Previous post was at 22:04 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr View Post
Surely it should be about as long as it takes someone to check my Driving Licence for points or disqualifications i.e. no time at all.
Government departments run very slowly and are renowned for being inept. Anyone needing a job or accommodation will most likely have lost the opportunity to obtain a vacancy or a home by the time they received the documentation that they needed.

---------- Post added at 22:09 ---------- Previous post was at 22:07 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
1996 Asylum and Immigration Act
I'm sure many other restrictions have been around for DECADES.

How do you build a central government database on these issues? Do you get people to prove it now or continuously collect data for the next 100 years before you can use the database.

Would you like people to have access to your bank account on the basis of a name and a date(eg date of birth or date of arrival)?
And doing this would bring in civil rights concerns and Human Rights Act legislation (right to a private family life clause).
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Old 20-04-2018, 08:10   #58
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Re: Windrush generation

Quote:
After living in Britain for almost half a century, Leighton Robinson's family decided to treat him to a 50th birthday trip to Jamaica, the country of his birth.
...
But instead of a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to explore his roots, it was the beginning of a 21-month nightmare as he was denied re-entry to Britain following the 2009 trip.
2009 was before 2010.

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Old 20-04-2018, 11:41   #59
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Re: Windrush generation

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
2009 was before 2010.

This caught my attention
Quote:
Having never taken a foreign holiday so never needed to apply for a British passport, he had travelled under a Jamaican one
How did he get a Jamaican passport? If he needed to apply for one, why not just apply for a UK one?
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Old 20-04-2018, 12:09   #60
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Re: Windrush generation

I think its easy to criticise this at face value but it's likely there is much much more to some of these cases.
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