Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

While i find what they are planning initially to be unacceptable reading the patent application gave me a lot more worries and as far as i am concerned the PR team for phorm know damn well we are not being told the whole story but as long as they get paid what the hell.

[the_baby_jebus]

interestingly, most of us have already read it. while i'm at it i'll throw these 3 in i would just now...

<quote> page 4
However, despite our positive findings regarding Phorm’s
approach to privacy protection we are disappointed that the
company has not benefited from an earlier implementation of a
PIA. While we are encouraged that Ernst & Young were engaged
to perform a privacy examination, the full scope and influence of
an “early intervention” PIA has not been possible. At this late stage
of product development it will not be possible to fully exploit the
value of a PIA.
Should have done this sooner?? is PIA now useless

We broadly agree with the positive findings of the 2007 Ernst &
Young privacy examination, but remain concerned that the scope
of that report was based almost exclusively on conditions applying
to the US privacy environment. Public sensitivities, regulatory
conditions and other factors vary substantially according to
geographical location.
Riiiight... so nothing to do with UK law then... interesting

page 5
This initial assessment has not had the opportunity to examine the
privacy practices of Phorm’s partner organisations
Who could collate a database for habits ip addresses and anything else my browser wants to give up
</quote>

not exactly all roses is it??

to be honest we couldn't give a monkies what phorm has to say on this or any other matter. phorm are doing what they have always done, writing spyware..

it's the ISPs we have a problem with installing the stuff at source. If i had spyware on my PC i would and have chosen to remove it anyway i could.. right down to uninstalling the operating system .. with the spyware firmly installed in a bomb proof bunker i no longer have this option..

phorms protestations that the opt-out cookie will be effective have no impact on my view of the ISPs because as far as i am concerned my ISP should have nothing to do with russian spyware pushers, who in my eyes are about one step up from pond **** virus writers and h@xors

[Ravenheart]

As usual they're very selective in what they post, completely ignoring the concerns even made by 80/20, no mention of the FIPR "it's illegal" report. They've lied from day one, saying they had endorsement from Privacy International, and only changing the spin when they were found out, and then blaming everyone that WE misunderstood them

Simply put this outfit will blatantly lie, not answer probing questions and behave just like someone trying to offload some dodgy goods onto someone from a pub car park.

The Phorm smoke and mirrors PR stunt may have worked on ISP bosses but never underestimate the general public to discover the truth.

They're still the spyware peddlers they've always been.

[OF1975]

Welcome back to the forum PhormUKPRTeam,

Nothing like a share price collapse to flush the PR people back out of the woodwork, eh? I hope you got plenty of rest during your time away from these forums as you are fighting a losing battle. Put simply: DO NOT WANT. Why not save your time and just let your client (Phorm) know that there is no way you can fix this with lies and spin?

Wonder how much further the share price will drop if those caught up in the BT trial last year report BT/Phorm to the police because of RIPA violations due to them not having gained consent for that trial.

Time to go check on the Phorm share price... Very few things have given me so much satisfaction as watching the Phorm share price fall by over 30% over the last two weeks.

[mertle]

Originally Posted by the_baby_jebus

interestingly, most of us have already read it. while i'm at it i'll throw these 3 in i would just now...

<quote> page 4
However, despite our positive findings regarding Phorm’s
approach to privacy protection we are disappointed that the
company has not benefited from an earlier implementation of a
PIA. While we are encouraged that Ernst & Young were engaged
to perform a privacy examination, the full scope and influence of
an “early intervention” PIA has not been possible. At this late stage
of product development it will not be possible to fully exploit the
value of a PIA.
Should have done this sooner?? is PIA now useless

We broadly agree with the positive findings of the 2007 Ernst &
Young privacy examination, but remain concerned that the scope
of that report was based almost exclusively on conditions applying
to the US privacy environment. Public sensitivities, regulatory
conditions and other factors vary substantially according to
geographical location.
Riiiight... so nothing to do with UK law then... interesting

page 5
This initial assessment has not had the opportunity to examine the
privacy practices of Phorm’s partner organisations
Who could collate a database for habits ip addresses and anything else my browser wants to give up
</quote>

not exactly all roses is it??

to be honest we couldn't give a monkies what phorm has to say on this or any other matter. phorm are doing what they have always done, writing spyware..

it's the ISPs we have a problem with installing the stuff at source. If i had spyware on my PC i would and have chosen to remove it anyway i could.. right down to uninstalling the operating system .. with the spyware firmly installed in a bomb proof bunker i no longer have this option..

phorms protestations that the opt-out cookie will be effective have no impact on my view of the ISPs because as far as i am concerned my ISP should have nothing to do with russian spyware pushers, who in my eyes are about one step up from pond **** virus writers and h@xors

aye but would'nt say phorm is one step up I consider there practises just as bad as hackers and as there past. They have'nt changed there still a rootkit, spyware, malware company.

The difference is they putting there dirty little laundry into ISP hardware and tryung to legalise a scummish practise on the pretence its to stop phishing and protect us.

I think they are the trojan horse to cause mayhem. As I feel they will just be an unlocked door to the hackers world to cause havoc.

I am amazed at 25 naive people who actually voted to support phorm. They could be business owners who see a good market opportunity in targeted junk.

[Ravenheart]

http://finance.google.com/finance?q=LON:PHRM

Currently down 17%

Lots of minus figures in the Key stats and ratios section too.

[Barkotron]

"To avoid the re-emergence of prior confusion: Privacy International, one of the leading privacy advocacy bodies, did not endorse us and do not endorse any companies."

This is massively dishonest and patronising - you appear to be trying to imply that this "confusion" is due to public misunderstanding. It is not. This "confusion" is due to public statements made by yourselves and the management team stating in so many words that Privacy International had okayed the system.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...ternet.privacy - Marc Burgess specifically states that "Privacy International" did the impact assessment. Having read the report I cannot believe that this was a mistake - it mentions 80/20 Thinking constantly. To me this looks like a deliberate attempt to use the reputation of a fairly well-respected campaign group as a figleaf for a business which has been characterised by dishonesty and a disregard for those who are affected by their plans from day 1, although I'd be interested to know why we should think otherwise.

The public DO NOT NEED OR WANT this technology. The online No.10 petition demonstrates that pretty clearly: more than 7,000 signatures now, in a little over two weeks, is one of the fastest-growing there has ever been on the site.

Importantly, and something that must not be dismissed out of hand, I also haven't seen you or Phorm management explain why they think they have the right to use this data. It DOES NOT belong to the ISP: it's not theirs to sell. As Tim Berners-Lee said in his interview, "It's mine. You can't have it." If you want to use it you have to ask us each individually and tell us what we're getting in return. Using it without the explicitly-granted permission of every single user AND website owner is, to my mind, straight-up theft. IF I don't want what you're peddling (and I don't), then you have absolutely no right of access to anything my family or I do online, whether you use it to profile or not. Why do you think you have the right to use it without my permission?

[OF1975]

Originally Posted by Ravenheart

http://finance.google.com/finance?q=LON:PHRM

Currently down 17%

Lots of minus figures in the Key stats and ratios section too.

Down 17% is a good start but hopefully it will fall further. We need every bit of leverage we can get against Phorm if we are to defeat it.

As for the people who voted they wouldnt leave because of phorm in the poll, they are probably shareholders crying themselves to sleep as they watch their investment going down the drain. Ain't karma a b*tch?

[AlexanderHanff]

Originally Posted by OF1975

Down 17% is a good start but hopefully it will fall further. We need every bit of leverage we can get against Phorm if we are to defeat it.

As for the people who voted they wouldnt leave because of phorm in the poll, they are probably shareholders crying themselves to sleep as they watch their investment going down the drain. Ain't karma a b*tch?

If Phorm had any common sense they would drop the UK market like a hot stone, this controversy has lost them tens of millions of GBP in share capital over the past 3 weeks. They would be better off concentrating their efforts on the US, who are bound to lap this up given their existing and historical stance on privacy. At least that way their share price -might- start to recover Mind you I am waiting for them to launch in the US so EFF can take them and their partners straight to court, only the federal government are allowed to use illegal wiretaps (well they aren't really according to the Senate Oversight Committee or whatever they are called, but Bush like to think he is immune).

Alexander Hanff

[lostandconfused]

True. But if you take a longer term view, the share price at the moment is about the same as it was a year ago. i think their share price needs to drop further before they will seriously consider moving out of the UK market.

[AlexanderHanff]

Originally Posted by lostandconfused

True. But if you take a longer term view, the share price at the moment is about the same as it was a year ago. i think their share price needs to drop further before they will seriously consider moving out of the UK market.

Well if their Interim Accounts are anything to go by for 2007 they are looking at a pretax profit of -16.3M USD. The filed pretax profit for year ending 2006 was -11.54M USD, in fact I can't as yet see any point where they have made money.

And still the share price continues to phall. I haven't done an accurate calculation, but a quick glance of trades so far today show something in the region of £500 000 worth of shares dumped back onto the market. Shorter's seem to be jumping in now, there was just a trade for 9k shares at £164k.

[Edit]
Just done a quick set of sums and so far something like 67512 shares have dumped on the market since trading started this morning. At the current mid price of 1775 thats a staggering 1.19M GBP worth of dumped shares in just 6 hours. It will actually be higher than that because most of the sells were between 1775 and 2050 but I chose the mid price to be phair.

Alexander Hanff

[OF1975]

I just used the Liberty website to send them an email enquiring as to whether they are aware of this issue and whether they have any comments regarding it. I intend to follow that up with a letter too once I manage to fix my printer. It will be interesting to see what response, if any, liberty have to this whole issue of Phorm.

[Ravenheart]

New item on the Register

Phorm has agreed to allow an independent software expert to inspect its source code as it continues to battle the firestorm provoked by agreements with BT, Virgin Media and Carphone Warehouse to let it build profiles of their broadband customers' web browsing.

Full story here: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/19/phorm_8020_pi/

[mark777]

Originally Posted by lostandconfused

...

It sounds like you wanted to cancel anyway and are using this as an excuse as they havent made any changes, just suggestions.

...

Wrong - I don't need an excuse to cancel any service with any supplier. I'm furious that they are even considering this. I don't trust Virgin any more.

I'm also well aware that i'm going to have to put my hand a lot deeper into my pocket in order to change, but i'll accept the cost. I'm not going to get 'phone and broadband anywhere else for 20 quid a month am I?

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by mark777

Wrong - I don't need an excuse to cancel any service with any supplier. I'm furious that they are even considering this. I don't trust Virgin any more.

I'm also well aware that i'm going to have to put my hand a lot deeper into my pocket in order to change, but i'll accept the cost. I'm not going to get 'phone and broadband anywhere else for 20 quid a month am I?

Well said. I will wait to see if they decide to go ahead with this invasion of my privacy with the 121 media/ Phorm spyware and then i will be leaving VM for a Non Phorm provider.