The state benefits system mega-thread. - Page 141

**Hugh** · 26-03-2019, 07:58

Well, perhaps, if it will increase their chance of successfully claiming benefits, they might need to "bother" the GP.

The more evidence, the better.

denphone · 26-03-2019, 08:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

Well, perhaps, if it will increase their chance of successfully claiming benefits, they might need to "bother" the GP.

The more evidence, the better.

l would have thought so going by my own personal experiences.

nomadking · 26-03-2019, 08:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

Well, perhaps, if it will increase their chance of successfully claiming benefits, they might need to "bother" the GP.

The more evidence, the better.

Evidence of what though? Bothering a GP simply to say that the problems still exist doesn't seem a good use of their time. Plus as I pointed out, it doesn't carry much weight. Eg I have a problem with my right hand. It has been medically identified(X-rays) and has external visible signs, but nothing can be done about it, other than not to overuse it.

RichardCoulter · 26-03-2019, 15:50

Petition to obtain an independent enquiry into a further death caused by the DWP:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petit...wblUEmbt3fXR-4

RichardCoulter · 30-03-2019, 16:13

At 11am on Tuesday, Radio 4 are to broadcast a sitcom about the farce that is these new Government assessments that Cameron introduced for the sick & disabled.

It's coming to something when people are openly laughing at how absurd and ridiculous they are, though it should be remembered that these are real people that are being affected and is so serious that thousands of people have lost their lives as a result.

jfman · 30-03-2019, 17:08

In defence of Cameron it was Labour who introduced the Work Capability Assessment.

denphone · 30-03-2019, 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

In defence of Cameron it was Labour who introduced the Work Capability Assessment.

Exactly.

peanut · 30-03-2019, 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

At 11am on Tuesday, Radio 4 are to broadcast a sitcom about the farce that is these new Government assessments that Cameron introduced for the sick & disabled.

It's coming to something when people are openly laughing at how absurd and ridiculous they are, though it should be remembered that these are real people that are being affected and is so serious that thousands of people have lost their lives as a result.

Coming to something? It's been a joke for years. And it's those that can laugh at it are the people that are affected. I don't think it's those who aren't affected will be the ones laughing or find it in anyway funny at all. Just to be on your safe side, when I say we can laugh at it, we don't think it's funny haha, (just a parody) just funny as we relate and see the irony to it all. But to highlight it in this manner has to be a good thing.

But I'm sure you'll find a way to find fault with those that can laugh at something so damning.

RichardCoulter · 31-03-2019, 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

In defence of Cameron it was Labour who introduced the Work Capability Assessment.

It was, they decided to focus on what people can do as opposed to what people couldn't do when it came to assessing whether they were fit for worknir not.

The overall system was changed for the worse by Cameron. For all the problems that people have with May, she is planning to stop assessing those whose conditions are unlikely to change and to introduce a ten yearly light touch assessment for pensioners.

There are also plans to merge the assessments for PIP and ESA, this is beinv criticised because if the assessment is failed, both benefits would stop. At the moment, at least oeople will have something to live on whilst appeals etc are processed (these can take a very long time due to the numbers that the DWP are routinely turning down).

---------- Post added at 09:40 ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by peanut

Coming to something? It's been a joke for years. And it's those that can laugh at it are the people that are affected. I don't think it's those who aren't affected will be the ones laughing or find it in anyway funny at all. Just to be on your safe side, when I say we can laugh at it, we don't think it's funny haha, (just a parody) just funny as we relate and see the irony to it all. But to highlight it in this manner has to be a good thing.

But I'm sure you'll find a way to find fault with those that can laugh at something so damning.

I find the first part of your post interesting, but the final sentence makes no sense at all.

jfman · 31-03-2019, 09:47

I think the common sense solution is to do away with disability benefits as a top up. They should means test the lot as Universal Credit to ensure money is targeted at those most in need.

PIP mobility should end at 65. Over state pension age it should be State Pension plus Attendance Allowance ending the unfairness of a two tier system based on date of claim.

It’d save a fortune on bureaucracy as well and simplify the processes for applicants.

ianch99 · 31-03-2019, 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

In defence of Cameron it was Labour who introduced the Work Capability Assessment.

When was this work handed to the private sector? This seems a serious flaw in the process. Does profit play a role in the decision making?

jfman · 31-03-2019, 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99

When was this work handed to the private sector? This seems a serious flaw in the process. Does profit play a role in the decision making?

The private sector were brought in around 2008 to carry out assessments for ESA. As part of this there was essentially an attempt to downgrade the role of Decision Maker in DWP from the lowest junior manager grade in the Civil Service to an administrative one (essentially rubber stamping the output of an ATOS assessment).

I’m not sure I feel there are “targets” for providers (this proves contentious when Dispatches sent someone undercover but there are certainly cases where the provider is paid per assessment leading to conveyor belt assessment centres.

denphone · 31-03-2019, 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

The private sector were brought in around 2008 to carry out assessments for ESA. As part of this there was essentially an attempt to downgrade the role of Decision Maker in DWP from the lowest junior manager grade in the Civil Service to an administrative one (essentially rubber stamping the output of an ATOS assessment).

Never a good idea when profit motives undermines the assessment process thus damaging trust and faith in the system..

As l say it should all be brought back in house by the DWP.

https://publications.parliament.uk/p.../829/82909.htm

**Hugh** · 31-03-2019, 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

The private sector were brought in around 2008 to carry out assessments for ESA. As part of this there was essentially an attempt to downgrade the role of Decision Maker in DWP from the lowest junior manager grade in the Civil Service to an administrative one (essentially rubber stamping the output of an ATOS assessment).

I’m not sure I feel there are “targets” for providers (this proves contentious when Dispatches sent someone undercover but there are certainly cases where the provider is paid per assessment leading to conveyor belt assessment centres.

Decision Makers are EOs (Executive Officers), not AOs (Administrative Officers), and they don’t "rubber stamp" the assessments - if this were so, why is there an initial 4 weeks training, followed by 4 weeks of QA, followed by another 4 weeks of further training, followed by another 4 weeks QA, before DMs are allowed to actively score assessments?

jfman · 31-03-2019, 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

Decision Makers are EOs (Executive Officers), not AOs (Administrative Officers), and they don’t "rubber stamp" the assessments - if this were so, why is there an initial 4 weeks training, followed by 4 weeks of QA, followed by another 4 weeks of further training, followed by another 4 weeks QA, before DMs are allowed to actively score assessments?

I should have been clearer it was an "attempt" to do so by bringing in private sector providers to do assessments. The DWP weren't successful in pushing through the change, mainly because of the Harrington review. The clear intention was to ultimately remove Decision Making from EO 'considerative' Decision Makers to the AO grade in the longer term.

This failed early doors though.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...75/rrep788.pdf

There's some stuff in there about DMs feeling that they weren't being empowered to make decisions in the early stages. It would only have been a matter of time before that resulted in a job evaluation/grading exercise that downgraded the role.

There is also old case law about a decision needing to be made by an appropriately trained person acting on behalf of the secretary of state.