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Old 29-04-2020, 14:00   #2776
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Re: Coronavirus

The problem with testing thousands more people is . . . you find more people infected


or am I not conforming to the mass hysteria routine?
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Old 29-04-2020, 14:01   #2777
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Just come out and say you'd prefer we didn't pay people to sit in the house for 8-12 weeks and prefer they died in low paying jobs just so the FTSE 100 can go up 10-15%. That'd be a much more honest assessment of the matter
He didn't say that, you did.

which tells everyone a lot more about you, than it does about him.
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Old 29-04-2020, 14:13   #2778
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Quote from Carth:
The problem with testing thousands more people is . . . you find more people infected
I suspect that there is a large groundswell of undetected infection going on with people not realising they've had it. How else are we to explain the rise of infection in care homes?

Once we have a reliable anti-body test then we'll be in a better position to know whether contact tracing will be an effective measure.
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Old 29-04-2020, 14:18   #2779
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
He didn't say that, you did.

which tells everyone a lot more about you, than it does about him.
That’s why I’m asking him to summarise his position in that manner. If he out and out said it we could all just move on rather than have to regularly engage with pseudoscience, speculation and supposition based on anecdotal evidence he hears from bored “old people” around him.

This forum has done the subject to death. This isn’t just the flu, it would without control kill far more people, overwhelm the NHS and have far wider implications for the economy.

The role of Governments and Central Banks is to support the global economy at this time. What do we pay taxes for 50 years for if it can’t even, for a mere few months, underwrite and support the economy?
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Old 29-04-2020, 14:33   #2780
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
<SNIP>


The role of Governments and Central Banks is to support the global economy at this time. What do we pay taxes for 50 years for if it can’t even, for a mere few months, underwrite and support the economy?
To underscore what jfman said above, on LBC someone said (I paraphrase) that in the UK scheme of things we pay into the system and we need healthcare support, the state provides that. Meanwhile, people not needing that support are still paying in case they (and others) do.

On jfman's specific point about supporting the economy, I'll bet that the different countries are squirrelled away planning how their economy can come out stronger than the others'.

With regard to the virus, the UK is in the position of watching Germany, Italy and others that are "ahead" of the curve. Our Guvmin can take wise decisions given the delicate balancing act of retaining public consent.


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Old 29-04-2020, 14:35   #2781
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by Mr K View Post
We have one of the worst death rates in the World, the real number is likely to be closer to 40,000, given they are only giving hospital deaths. We were given plenty of warning but were too slow to react. The PPE shambles and running down of the NHS over the last 10 years has hit us hard. Getting the virus doesn't make Boris a martyr, or mean he isn't incompetent. . It will take decades for this country to recover, other countries will recover quicker. The fallout from this will end many political careers.
STOP TALKING LIES AND NONSENSE. THERE IS NO WAY OF COMPARING DEATH RATES.

Eg Two countries with 100m population and 10,000 deaths. Country A only tested the 10,000 that died, country B tested 10% of their population. Country A would have a death rate of 100% of cases, country B would be 0.1%.

Eg Country X had 100 people bringing it into the country, whereas country Y only had 10 people. which country is going to have the more cases?

That is before you factor in all sorts of complicating issues, mainly related to group behaviours in those countries. Eg if religious groups are in the habit of gathering in large groups, then guess what, it's more likely to spread within that group and beyond.
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Old 29-04-2020, 14:45   #2782
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
STOP TALKING LIES AND NONSENSE. THERE IS NO WAY OF COMPARING DEATH RATES.

Eg Two countries with 100m population and 10,000 deaths. Country A only tested the 10,000 that died, country B tested 10% of their population. Country A would have a death rate of 100% of cases, country B would be 0.1%.

Eg Country X had 100 people bringing it into the country, whereas country Y only had 10 people. which country is going to have the more cases?

That is before you factor in all sorts of complicating issues, mainly related to group behaviours in those countries. Eg if religious groups are in the habit of gathering in large groups, then guess what, it's more likely to spread within that group and beyond.
Ah the group behaviours in other countries rears its head. Inter-generational families in Italy wasn’t it before?

What do you think they say in Germany to look down their noses at our death rates? Superiority complex? Stuck in the days of Empire?

You can absolutely compare death rates - you just find them a bit uncomfortable.

---------- Post added at 14:45 ---------- Previous post was at 14:44 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
To underscore what jfman said above, on LBC someone said (I paraphrase) that in the UK scheme of things we pay into the system and we need healthcare support, the state provides that. Meanwhile, people not needing that support are still paying in case they (and others) do.

On jfman's specific point about supporting the economy, I'll bet that the different countries are squirrelled away planning how their economy can come out stronger than the others'.

With regard to the virus, the UK is in the position of watching Germany, Italy and others that are "ahead" of the curve. Our Guvmin can take wise decisions given the delicate balancing act of retaining public consent.


Seph’s on board and I think Carth is getting close, folks.
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Old 29-04-2020, 14:49   #2783
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by heero_yuy View Post
They could always try dropping the price and ship it to the supermarkets.

Same story in The Times for those with access.
We need to build a pipeline!
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Old 29-04-2020, 15:00   #2784
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Re: Coronavirus

Meanwhile, Gal Qaeda are telling us that although more men are dying of CV, women are the actual losers in this
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Old 29-04-2020, 15:02   #2785
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Re: Coronavirus

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Meanwhile, Gal Qaeda are telling us that although more men are dying of CV, women are the actual losers in this
This is fantastic.

I bet she’s just got an off the shelf template where she inserts the name of the crisis.

“More men might be out working to clear the railways during the beast from the east, but it is hurting women in other ways forcing some back into domesticity from which they thought they had escaped.”

PASTE.

Easy copy if you can get it.
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Old 29-04-2020, 15:03   #2786
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
That's untrue. If you did lock everyone away until there was no virus as soon as you unlocked the doors - who would they get it from?

We are an island - we can isolate people at the borders for two weeks to limit the spread, only allow people in who were tested in the immediate period prior to travel, only allow people in from other countries that have contained the virus, etc.

There's a number of mechanisms that can be used - again we come back to the idea that you think it would be too hard and you'd rather just open up the economy for 250,000 people to die.

You only need one person to come in from abroad whose infection had been undetected to be in direct contact with someone in this country who had not had the virus, and until herd immunity is built up it would start all over again. You are seeing how uncontrollable this perishing virus is when you look at what has happened in Germany as soon as they relax their stiff controls.

My point is, you cannot control the virus effectively without strict lock down measures, and if you open your eyes, you cannot fail to notice that people are already getting restless and flouting the rules after 5 weeks of lockdown! How do you suppose we can continue to control this if we extended lockdown even by another six weeks, let alone six months?
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Old 29-04-2020, 15:04   #2787
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post

You can absolutely compare death rates - you just find them a bit uncomfortable.
You can, and all they’ll tell is how many are dead.......nothing more.
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Old 29-04-2020, 15:08   #2788
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post

Just come out and say you'd prefer we didn't pay people to sit in the house for 8-12 weeks and prefer they died in low paying jobs just so the FTSE 100 can go up 10-15%. That'd be a much more honest assessment of the matter.
You are disgusting, jfman. I did not say that and it is not the way I view this at all.

If you cannot understand the futility of attempting to lock the nation down for six months +, there's not much else I can say to you. Except that your solution is a total delusion.
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Old 29-04-2020, 15:10   #2789
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
You only need one person to come in from abroad whose infection had been undetected to be in direct contact with someone in this country who had not had the virus, and until herd immunity is built up it would start all over again. You are seeing how uncontrollable this perishing virus is when you look at what has happened in Germany as soon as they relax their stiff controls.
That’s why we need controls on who comes in from abroad. Testing before they travel, quarantine and testing after they get here. Contact tracing. It’s tried and tested science for controlling the spread of viruses.

If it’s no longer economically viable for someone to come to the UK under those conditions then tough shit for them. We’ve a population to protect in the short term and an economy in the longer term.

Quote:
My point is, you cannot control the virus effectively without strict lock down measures, and if you open your eyes, you cannot fail to notice that people are already getting restless and flouting the rules after 5 weeks of lockdown! How do you suppose we can continue to control this if we extended lockdown even by another six weeks, let alone six months?
Confidence in the lockdown and the Government remains high. A confidence that will only increase as infection figures fall over the next couple of weeks and testing ramps up for key workers.

There will always be low level criminal activity Old Boy. We can’t run a country by lowering ourselves to their standards.

If you are confident it’ll die out over the summer by itself what’s the rush?
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Old 29-04-2020, 15:12   #2790
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Ah the group behaviours in other countries rears its head. Inter-generational families in Italy wasn’t it before?

What do you think they say in Germany to look down their noses at our death rates? Superiority complex? Stuck in the days of Empire?

You can absolutely compare death rates - you just find them a bit uncomfortable.

---------- Post added at 14:45 ---------- Previous post was at 14:44 ----------



Seph’s on board and I think Carth is getting close, folks.
Kiss of death, Carth!
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