Home News Forum Articles
  Welcome back Join CF
You are here You are here: Home | Forum | Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most of the discussions, articles and other free features. By joining our Virgin Media community you will have full access to all discussions, be able to view and post threads, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own images/photos, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please join our community today.


Welcome to Cable Forum
Go Back   Cable Forum > Virgin Media Services > Virgin Media TV Service

Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 21-05-2020, 19:58   #1321
denphone
Still alive and fighting
 
denphone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In the land of beyond and beyond.
Services: XL BB, 2 V6 boxes , XL TV.
Posts: 53,590
denphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver bling
denphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver bling
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
I just did, but from a different thread. It's on here too but I can't be arsed to trawl through 88 pages!
If you make a claim like that then prove it OB.
__________________
ďThe only lesson you can learn from history is that it repeats itselfĒ
denphone is online now   Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Old 21-05-2020, 20:12   #1322
jfman
Architect of Ideas
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,085
jfman has reached the bronze age
jfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze age
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
I just did, but from a different thread. It's on here too but I can't be arsed to trawl through 88 pages!
Thanks Old Boy for digging up my old post, which I think you will find entirely consistent with my most recent one here.

Quote:
We've done this one. Costs buttons to maintain a linear presence if you own the content anyway.
My bold.

You keep wilfully leaving out this caveat.

You will find that my position is entirely consistent with the BBCs here.

Quote:
The BBC are making all of the content anyway, however not getting the reach or the viewers by streaming alone. Why cut their nose off to spite their face to make you happy?
You can pick any channel run on a shoestring budget on the Sky EPG to confirm that the actual cost of broadcasting is tiny compared to the actual cost of content.

You are the only person that sees this as a zero sum game. These companies (and more importantly their shareholders) do not.
jfman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-05-2020, 20:32   #1323
OLD BOY
Experience is everything
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
Services: 2 V6 boxes; Ultimate oomph; Now TV, Amazon and Netflix; VM broadband and landline
Posts: 10,701
OLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze array
OLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze array
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Thanks Old Boy for digging up my old post, which I think you will find entirely consistent with my most recent one here.

My bold.

You keep wilfully leaving out this caveat.

You will find that my position is entirely consistent with the BBCs here.
My post 1318 includes your caveat. So what's your point? As far as I am aware, BBC3 Online and BBC4 content belongs to the BBC.

So, according to your own assessment, the Beeb should be able to reinstate BBC3 without very much cost at all.

The fact that the Beeb is having to balance whether to replace BBC4 with BBC 3 seems to prove you wrong. If it was so inexpensive to run a channel (ahem, with their own content) why the agonising?

---------- Post added at 20:30 ---------- Previous post was at 20:28 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post

You can pick any channel run on a shoestring budget on the Sky EPG to confirm that the actual cost of broadcasting is tiny compared to the actual cost of content.

You are the only person that sees this as a zero sum game. These companies (and more importantly their shareholders) do not.
Really? So why the agonising over how to fund it, then?

Nothing like reality to demolish a poorly thought out argument.

---------- Post added at 20:32 ---------- Previous post was at 20:30 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post

You are the only person that sees this as a zero sum game. These companies (and more importantly their shareholders) do not.
The only one? Another untruth.
OLD BOY is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21-05-2020, 20:33   #1324
jfman
Architect of Ideas
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,085
jfman has reached the bronze age
jfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze age
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
My post 1318 includes your caveat. So what's your point?
My point is that you wilfully misrepresent it. As in post 1314, noted by Hugh in post 1315.

Quote:
As far as I am aware, BBC3 Online and BBC4 content belongs to the BBC.

So, according to your own assessment, the Beeb should be able to reinstate BBC3 without very much cost at all.

The fact that the Beeb is having to balance whether to replace BBC4 with BBC 3 seems to prove you wrong. If it was so inexpensive to run a channel (ahem, with their own content) why the agonising?
BBC 4 has an annual budget of £44m. They want to invest in content for BBC 3 - doubling investment to £80m.

So the choice that the BBC are toiling over is, unsurprisingly, much more complex than the simplistic way you portrayed it in your post. Some credible links too:

https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...nder-proposals

https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...losure-rumours

Quote:
Really? So why the agonising over how to fund it, then?

Nothing like reality to demolish a poorly thought out argument.
I couldn't have put that better myself.

Last edited by jfman; 21-05-2020 at 20:37.
jfman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-05-2020, 21:32   #1325
Hugh
Hic Sunt Dracones
Cable Forum Team
 
Hugh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 63
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 34,521
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
I just did, but from a different thread. It's on here too but I can't be arsed to trawl through 88 pages!
I quite understand - why should you have to resort to evidence-based discussion...

---------- Post added at 21:32 ---------- Previous post was at 21:19 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
My point is that you wilfully misrepresent it. As in post 1314, noted by Hugh in post 1315.



BBC 4 has an annual budget of £44m. They want to invest in content for BBC 3 - doubling investment to £80m.

So the choice that the BBC are toiling over is, unsurprisingly, much more complex than the simplistic way you portrayed it in your post. Some credible links too:

https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...nder-proposals

https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...losure-rumours



I couldn't have put that better myself.
tuppence, £80m - not much difference...
__________________
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
Hugh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-05-2020, 21:57   #1326
jfman
Architect of Ideas
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,085
jfman has reached the bronze age
jfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze age
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

I've never denied that content costs money.
jfman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2020, 02:08   #1327
Legendkiller2k
cf.addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Jupiter
Services: Zen internet, netflix, kodi media streamer.
Posts: 318
Legendkiller2k is just really niceLegendkiller2k is just really niceLegendkiller2k is just really niceLegendkiller2k is just really niceLegendkiller2k is just really niceLegendkiller2k is just really nice
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Jfman believes that a linear TV station can be run for tuppence, so it really shouldnít even a problem, Den. 😂

---------- Post added at 18:44 ---------- Previous post was at 18:42 ----------



Not yet itís not. Donít know where you got that from.

Ask that question again in the next decade.
Dude i work in the tv channel industry and i can tell you now there are plans set for at least 30 years for linear tv so it aint going anywhere, the number of channels will drop for sure and online tv will grow without a doubt but remember live tv via internet is still linear tv.
__________________
Destiny is not set but what we make.
Legendkiller2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2020, 08:22   #1328
Hugh
Hic Sunt Dracones
Cable Forum Team
 
Hugh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 63
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 34,521
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
I've never denied that content costs money.
I know - you also never said a linear station can be run for tuppence.

What you should have said was that a linear station could be run for tuppence (inflation adjusted) in the 2030s...
__________________
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
Hugh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2020, 11:02   #1329
OLD BOY
Experience is everything
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
Services: 2 V6 boxes; Ultimate oomph; Now TV, Amazon and Netflix; VM broadband and landline
Posts: 10,701
OLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze array
OLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze array
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
I quite understand - why should you have to resort to evidence-based discussion...

---------- Post added at 21:32 ---------- Previous post was at 21:19 ----------

tuppence, £80m - not much difference...
I agree that jfman didn't actually say it would cost tuppence to run a linear channel. He actually said it would cost 'buttons', which is much the same thing. I acknowledge his caveat, but I have never questioned that.

According to your links, the BBC want to increase funding for BBC3, which is fine. However, given the dearth of new programming on BBC4, it is amazing that the channel costs as much as it does to run.
OLD BOY is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2020, 11:36   #1330
Raider999
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,145
Raider999 is a glorious beacon of lightRaider999 is a glorious beacon of lightRaider999 is a glorious beacon of lightRaider999 is a glorious beacon of lightRaider999 is a glorious beacon of lightRaider999 is a glorious beacon of lightRaider999 is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
I agree that jfman didn't actually say it would cost tuppence to run a linear channel. He actually said it would cost 'buttons', which is much the same thing. I acknowledge his caveat, but I have never questioned that.

According to your links, the BBC want to increase funding for BBC3, which is fine. However, given the dearth of new programming on BBC4, it is amazing that the channel costs as much as it does to run.
Not much new content on BBC1 or BBC2 either so why should 3/4 be any different?

Not a great deal on streamed TV either - the virus affects every type of TV.
Raider999 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2020, 11:42   #1331
Legendkiller2k
cf.addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Jupiter
Services: Zen internet, netflix, kodi media streamer.
Posts: 318
Legendkiller2k is just really niceLegendkiller2k is just really niceLegendkiller2k is just really niceLegendkiller2k is just really niceLegendkiller2k is just really niceLegendkiller2k is just really nice
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raider999 View Post
Not much new content on BBC1 or BBC2 either so why should 3/4 be any different?

Not a great deal on streamed TV either - the virus affects every type of TV.
Agreed i'm glad i have a huge backlog of shows and movies to watch.
__________________
Destiny is not set but what we make.
Legendkiller2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2020, 11:47   #1332
jfman
Architect of Ideas
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,085
jfman has reached the bronze age
jfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze age
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
I agree that jfman didn't actually say it would cost tuppence to run a linear channel. He actually said it would cost 'buttons', which is much the same thing. I acknowledge his caveat, but I have never questioned that.

According to your links, the BBC want to increase funding for BBC3, which is fine. However, given the dearth of new programming on BBC4, it is amazing that the channel costs as much as it does to run.
You didnít acknowledge the caveat in your reply to Den. Thatís the point.

Even in this post you are conflating the cost of running a linear channel (including content) and creating a linear broadcast (from content you own and are likely streaming.

Not once have you ever demonstrated how and when linear ceases to be viable. Switch on a TV and press 1 is always going to hold some value because of itís prominence and it works if your internet provider goes down. https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/28/thous...ours-12619391/
jfman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2020, 19:02   #1333
Mad Max
cf.mega poster
 
Mad Max's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,710
Mad Max has reached the bronze age
Mad Max has reached the bronze ageMad Max has reached the bronze ageMad Max has reached the bronze ageMad Max has reached the bronze ageMad Max has reached the bronze ageMad Max has reached the bronze ageMad Max has reached the bronze ageMad Max has reached the bronze ageMad Max has reached the bronze ageMad Max has reached the bronze ageMad Max has reached the bronze ageMad Max has reached the bronze ageMad Max has reached the bronze ageMad Max has reached the bronze ageMad Max has reached the bronze ageMad Max has reached the bronze ageMad Max has reached the bronze ageMad Max has reached the bronze ageMad Max has reached the bronze age
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
You didnít acknowledge the caveat in your reply to Den. Thatís the point.

Even in this post you are conflating the cost of running a linear channel (including content) and creating a linear broadcast (from content you own and are likely streaming.

Not once have you ever demonstrated how and when linear ceases to be viable. Switch on a TV and press 1 is always going to hold some value because of itís prominence and it works if your internet provider goes down. https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/28/thous...ours-12619391/

Didn't he say 2035?
Mad Max is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2020, 19:29   #1334
jfman
Architect of Ideas
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,085
jfman has reached the bronze age
jfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze agejfman has reached the bronze age
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max View Post
Didn't he say 2035?
Thatís the figure plucked from the air, yes. The ďhowĒ part is somewhat lacking.
jfman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2020, 19:31   #1335
Hugh
Hic Sunt Dracones
Cable Forum Team
 
Hugh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 63
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 34,521
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max View Post
Didn't he say 2035?
Yes - in this thread, post #303 from 2018.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
If you go back to all my posts on this, you will see that I have been looking towards 2035 (originally 20 years ahead but less now)!

It will be a gradual process at first, but that will speed up as fast broadband speeds become available throughout the country and more people become used to on demand viewing. The reduction in audience levels for the conventional TV channels will lead to reduced advertising revenues and ultimately, these channels will start closing down.

Some have said that the BBC won't be affected as they don't carry commercials, but even they are working on the basis that in 15 years' time' streaming and on demand viewing will be the focus.

Others have said that we will always see conventional channels for showing sport, but we can all see the trend towards streaming of live sport - the new Eleven Sports streaming service being the latest example.
But 5 years ago, in another thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris

You think that was easy?

Try reading the last several months worth of posts in this thread. The reasons why linear TV is not going to end any time in the foreseeable future are many, and have been set out, repeatedly, in this discussion. There are those here that love Netflix (or whatever) and find it impossibly hard to understand why anyone should feel differently. That leads them to make manifestly silly assertions about broadcast TV being switched off within 10 years.

It may have escaped your notice, but the BBC is currently engaged in the charter renewal process, which will grant it a royal charter for the next 10 years. In other words, it is blatantly obvious that Old Boy's original claim in this thread is false. The BBC will still be broadcasting linear TV channels on Christmas Day 2025. If the BBC guarantees the market, then other broadcasters will also still be there. They will all still be there in 2035 as well. And beyond.
In ten years? You may be right. In 20? Do you remember what it was like watching TV 20 years ago? In 1995, analogue cable TV was just being rolled out and most people did not have the Internet.

Given all the changes that can happen in a short space of time, particularly now, with technological advances being made at an ever faster rate, I don't think it wise to be saying that the existing linear TV model will still exist, at least in its present form, in the longer term.

And as for the BBC, I did not say that it would not exist in ten years. There's not a reason that I can think of why the BBC should not present all of its programmes by way of streaming in the future.

Incidentally, the BBC may be the last to depart from linear TV broadcasting, given that their channels do not waste 15 minutes of every hour showing commercials!
__________________
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.

Last edited by Hugh; 22-05-2020 at 19:35.
Hugh is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:44.


Server: curium.zmnt.net
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.