Football : Euro 2020

[jfman]

If we go after racists, what do we do when we get them?

Originally Posted by Damien

We need to go after the racists, not those protesting against it.

Exactly the point.
Making silly jestures is not going after anyone
They are exactly that, pointless and silly jestures.
I tune into [or attend] football matches to watch football, not watch stupid jestures.
Go and delete your social media accounts if you want to protest about the abuse on them.

---------- Post added at 03:54 ---------- Previous post was at 03:45 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

That kind of is the point though. They should be able to wear what they want. It's 100% the fault of the rapist.

Again, not related, apples/oranges .. but just to be clear, I would consider jestures at a football match against rape to be just as silly and pointless, its not the fault of football that rape or racism exist.

[Russ]

Taking the knee, bans from social media, campaigns in the media etc, I can't imagine any situation where a racist will see all that and have a change of heart. As has been said previously it will only make them more determined.

Originally Posted by jfman

If we go after racists, what do we do when we get them?

In the case of Football. Ban them for life from all sports fixtures. They are not allowed to attend any game, for any sport. Ban them on social media, let them exist in their own little echo chamber.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Mick

In the case of Football. Ban them for life from all sports fixtures. They are not allowed to attend any game, for any sport. Ban them on social media, let them exist in their own little echo chamber.

I agree with all of those points but the problem will persist until whatever makes people racist ends. Be that dog whistle politicians, tabloid newspapers or anyone else who readily incites racism and xenophobia but carefully enough to not commit a crime themselves.

Only this morning I saw a trope shared on Twitter about refugees coming over here for houses while there’s homeless ex-servicemen on the streets. The two ultimately aren’t linked - the lack of support for ex-servicemen who wind up homeless is a political choice.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Mick

In the case of Football. Ban them for life from all sports fixtures. They are not allowed to attend any game, for any sport. Ban them on social media, let them exist in their own little echo chamber.

Nobody could reasonably be against that but is it really solving the problem (which surely must be the end result)? Or is it just moving the problem somewhere else? I mean people like Katie Hopkins gets banned from Twitter, she then ends up on Parler.

Immigration is a whole separate discussion, but I will ask this…Is it racist though to worry about shortages, on an Island with limited resources, there is a housing crisis in the UK, priority should always be that countries citizens should come first. Are refugees genuine refugees, fleeing war torn countries?

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Mick

Immigration is a whole separate discussion, but I will ask this…Is it racist though to worry about shortages, on an Island with limited resources, there is a housing crisis in the UK, priority should always be that countries citizens should come first. Are refugees genuine refugees, fleeing war torn countries?

I don’t think it’s necessarily racist but keep in mind the Tories have underfunded the NHS for a decade then allowed people to believe the shortages are due to “all these foreigners”…

Originally Posted by Russ

Nobody could reasonably be against that but is it really solving the problem (which surely must be the end result)? Or is it just moving the problem somewhere else? I mean people like Katie Hopkins gets banned from Twitter, she then ends up on Parler.

I agree it’s moving the problem elsewhere. Twitter/Facebook/YouTube, have all banned Trump, but he’s still about in the background and he’s still attracting huge swathes of the American electorate, if they think they have silenced him, they’re wrong and because of these companies actions, they have probably caused him to be more prolific, given the fact he was a former U.S President. So yeah, agree banning troublesome people, doesn’t fully solve everything. Just kicks problem elsewhere.

---------- Post added at 12:56 ---------- Previous post was at 11:48 ----------

Look at this today now from Starmer accusing the PM of failing to condemn the boo'ers during England game when they take the knee, except this footage shows he did say the England teams should not be boo'd.

https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/stat...75719568019456

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Mick

Immigration is a whole separate discussion, but I will ask this…Is it racist though to worry about shortages, on an Island with limited resources, there is a housing crisis in the UK, priority should always be that countries citizens should come first. Are refugees genuine refugees, fleeing war torn countries?

Immigration is indeed a whole separate discussion as is efficient use of limited resources. But the trope is disingenuous. In reality we don’t support ex-servicemen and women because of the things people drew up a list of that we’d be willing to increase taxes by fractions of pennies for - or let’s face borrow more for as nobody is paying for anything as we hit £2.5 trillion of debt - and they didn’t make the cut.

Nor does anyone sincerely want to resolve the housing crisis due to the asset values (and borrowing) secured against them.

Originally Posted by Mick

I agree it’s moving the problem elsewhere. Twitter/Facebook/YouTube, have all banned Trump, but he’s still about in the background and he’s still attracting huge swathes of the American electorate, if they think they have silenced him, they’re wrong and because of these companies actions, they have probably caused him to be more prolific, given the fact he was a former U.S President. So yeah, agree banning troublesome people, doesn’t fully solve everything. Just kicks problem elsewhere.

---------- Post added at 12:56 ---------- Previous post was at 11:48 ----------

Look at this today now from Starmer accusing the PM of failing to condemn the boo'ers during England game when they take the knee, except this footage shows he did say the England teams should not be boo'd.

https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/stat...75719568019456

Only after the backlash when his official spokesman had declined to condemn those who booed players, only going so far as urging them to be “respectful”.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/b...r-b940113.html

So what you're saying is it is okay for one side to use divisive gestures but no ok to boo them doing the gestures and by the way, it doesn't make a boo'er racist because these gestures will not stop racists being racist. People are probably booing because they don't want politics in sport.

England players have set the ball very high now for equal rights and social acceptance of varying aspects of ones life, however, in next years World Cup, what they going to do in Qatar, where being gay is illegal?

[Carth]

Footballers in Qatar . . . interesting question regarding their stance on racism, poverty, human rights etc.

Maybe they'll play (earn the cash) and moan about it when they come home?

Bottom line . . . they're as hypocritical as most people when morals clash with money

There was widespread opposition within the sport at it being held in Qatar though, it's just that FIFA are corrupt. Footballers didn't choose it and don't want it, not least because it's too hot.

Also I think it's pointless saying "I don't want politics in [x]", politics is everywhere. The awarding of the World Cup to Qatar was political, they wanted it for political reasons, the objections to it are political and the calls for a boycott of it are also political.

[Russ]

The little car that came on the pitch for the ball? I wonder if it’ll have the Pride flag colours on it in Qatar.