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Old 15-07-2021, 11:48   #151
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Re: Euro 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy View Post
Speaking out is the only way to change anything.By not challenging the man down the pub with their racist tirades you basically let them think everyone agrees with them.Keeping silent changes nothing. What people think I can't change.However I can change what people say out loud by challenging them when they say it and write for all to see.

Keeping quiet shouldn't be an option if we really want change.


Exactly this
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Old 15-07-2021, 11:50   #152
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Re: Euro 2020

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Originally Posted by Russ View Post
The anti-racism groups seem to think that all they have to do is get their message across powerfully enough and it’s going to make the abusers see the error of their ways. Spectacular level of naivety.
This isn't that goal. Their goal is to raise awareness of where racism still exists and to get the public behind other measures to reduce it.

Quote:
They also seem to think that shutting the racists down, banning and cancelling them will also do the same. Whist I agree that we should have to see, read or hear racist abuse that doesn’t tackle the problem either. As previously mentioned, Katie Hopkins and Trump both got booted off Twitter, they’re now on Parler.
Which is a success. Hopkins has a much larger platform on Twitter and now she is reduced to Parler and only has a hardcore audience. There was someone who got 200,000-1,000,000 views on YouTube promoting theories about black people and IQ. YouTube banned him and so he moved to Bitchute where he gets in the low thousands.

Pushing people off large platforms and into the margins of the Internet is a success.

The England team's stand against racism and the subsequent abuse some of them received and caused a public outcry and now you have popular opinion, the press and the Government putting pressure on social media companies to remove racist accounts quicker and to algorithmically and proactively detect racist slurs and remove those too.

Hardcore racists aren't going away but we can keep pushing them further and further from the mainstream until all they are is bitter people shouting out of the window because no one else is willing to give them a platform or an audience.
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Old 15-07-2021, 12:08   #153
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Re: Euro 2020

It might help if there wasn't such an overreaction to it all.

It may also help if the rich and famous (not just footballers) didn't crave the millions of faceless 'followers' on their social media accounts, and give them the ability to post the crap that some do.

Look at me, look at me, I'm a celebrity . . . ooooh people are calling me names

Says it all when contestants fight tooth and claw to appear on the shagfest 'Love Island' and then need counseling afterwards.

If you want fame, or become famous through being good at something, be prepared to deal with the good and bad consequences of that media spotlight

*sits waiting for the vitriolic reactions to that*
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Old 15-07-2021, 12:19   #154
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Re: Euro 2020

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post
This isn't that goal. Their goal is to raise awareness of where racism still exists and to get the public behind other measures to reduce it.



Which is a success. Hopkins has a much larger platform on Twitter and now she is reduced to Parler and only has a hardcore audience. There was someone who got 200,000-1,000,000 views on YouTube promoting theories about black people and IQ. YouTube banned him and so he moved to Bitchute where he gets in the low thousands.

Pushing people off large platforms and into the margins of the Internet is a success.

The England team's stand against racism and the subsequent abuse some of them received and caused a public outcry and now you have popular opinion, the press and the Government putting pressure on social media companies to remove racist accounts quicker and to algorithmically and proactively detect racist slurs and remove those too.

Hardcore racists aren't going away but we can keep pushing them further and further from the mainstream until all they are is bitter people shouting out of the window because no one else is willing to give them a platform or an audience.
I would argue than any measures/gestures to “reduce” racism have spectacularly failed. Given how anyone who has an online presence believes that gives hem the right to be heard I’d say racism is just as bad today than it’s ever been.

As unlikely as I think it is to happen, should Trump get back in at their next election racism will be back with a vengeance.
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Old 15-07-2021, 13:06   #155
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Re: Euro 2020

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Originally Posted by Russ View Post
I would argue than any measures/gestures to “reduce” racism have spectacularly failed. Given how anyone who has an online presence believes that gives hem the right to be heard I’d say racism is just as bad today than it’s ever been.
I don't think racism can be as bad as it's ever been. There was a time where there were 'no blacks, no Irish' signs when a black footballer was a point of contention and got abuse from the stands and the Brixton riots were only 40 years or so.

Yes, social media has emboldened people but these are cowards hiding being anonymous IDs from anywhere in the world. This is also the very thing the current discussion is aimed at addressing. The fact it's sparked such a reaction and is universally supported by the tabloid press and a majority of the public shows it is better IMO.
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Old 15-07-2021, 13:13   #156
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Re: Euro 2020

I can agree that I think more people are willing to speak out about it and that’s never going to be a bad thing but if the endgame is to eliminate racism then just speaking out isn’t enough. The other side will just shout louder. As much as social medias doing their bit to remove offenders will help, that will only be a temporary fix.
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Old 15-07-2021, 15:23   #157
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Re: Euro 2020

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Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees View Post
Here's a thought, if you don't want to watch 'stupid gestures' at football, then don't go to the match.
Clearly you dont have many useful thoughts.
Maybe if you try harder you'll realise why people go to a football match.
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Old 15-07-2021, 15:32   #158
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Re: Euro 2020

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Originally Posted by Russ View Post
It’s isn’t up to me to solve the issue. All I know is it’s clear that all we’ve had so far is gestures.

Again don’t get me wrong, we should never give up the fight against this racism. It just needs to be tackled smarter, not harder.

The anti-racism groups seem to think that all they have to do is get their message across powerfully enough and it’s going to make the abusers see the error of their ways. Spectacular level of naivety.

They also seem to think that shutting the racists down, banning and cancelling them will also do the same. Whist I agree that we should have to see, read or hear racist abuse that doesn’t tackle the problem either. As previously mentioned, Katie Hopkins and Trump both got booted off Twitter, they’re now on Parler.

I may not have the answer but that does exclude me from pointing out when methods don’t work.
Trump isn't on Parler, if you believe reports they offered him a stake in the company to join but he wanted critics of him banned as well and being the self proclaimed home of free speech on the Internet they refused

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Originally Posted by Mr K View Post

(btw never heard of Parler, doesn't sound as though I'd like it ! )

Some new that will probably not please you:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/57846090
No one who isn't an extremist would like it, the people abusing the players would probably be right at home there
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Old 15-07-2021, 15:40   #159
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Re: Euro 2020

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Originally Posted by Paul View Post
Clearly you dont have many useful thoughts.
Maybe if you try harder you'll realise why people go to a football match.

I do like the way you have to resort to insults, I trust it makes you feel better.

I'm a season ticket holder at my club, have been for nearly thirty years.
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Old 15-07-2021, 16:12   #160
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Re: Euro 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees View Post

Here's a thought, if you don't want to watch 'stupid gestures' at football, then don't go to the match.
To be fair, we could change that slightly to eliminate much of the problem . . .

"if you don't want to read nasty things on social media, then don't use it"

works for me
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Old 15-07-2021, 22:07   #161
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Re: Euro 2020

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Originally Posted by Carth View Post
To be fair, we could change that slightly to eliminate much of the problem . . .

"if you don't want to read nasty things on social media, then don't use it"

works for me
How about "if you don’t want to hear racist insults, don’t walk anywhere"?

Asking because my wife’s friend’s 12 year old son was walking home from school earlier this week, and this happened

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Two grown men in a van have just shouted F*****G N***** at my son, who is 12 years old and was walking home from school
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Old 15-07-2021, 22:35   #162
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Re: Euro 2020

How about we ban the sale of vans to grown men?

Joking obviously, but we can go on forever banning things and racists would still find an opportunity.
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Old 16-07-2021, 03:20   #163
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Re: Euro 2020

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Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
How about "if you don’t want to hear racist insults, don’t walk anywhere"?
Using social media isnt necessary, walking generally is.

---------- Post added at 03:20 ---------- Previous post was at 03:18 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees View Post
I do like the way you have to resort to insults, I trust it makes you feel better.
There is a saying that starts "anything you can do .....". Or maybe the one about "people is glass houses"
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Old 16-07-2021, 12:32   #164
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Re: Euro 2020

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Originally Posted by Paul View Post
Using social media isnt necessary, walking generally is.

---------- Post added at 03:20 ---------- Previous post was at 03:18 ----------


There is a saying that starts "anything you can do .....". Or maybe the one about "people is glass houses"

Please show me where I've insulted you?
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