Brexit (Old) - Page 8

1andrew1 · 02-07-2018, 20:35

So, what will the future relationship with the EU be post-Brexit? Will there be a cake (and eat it) fight at Chequers?

The Standard today had a go at predicting things:

There will be no great showdown at Chequers on Friday.
None of the three options is acceptable to the EU anyway.
The promised bespoke deal of frictionless trade with control over borders and laws won't happen.
We're now back to looking at the options David Cameron outlined: 1) Membership of the EEA like Norway, 2) a Canada-style free trade agreement or 3) just WTO membership.
The decision will be delayed and extensions sought to the transition period.
One day, a stronger Cabinet will decide to join the EEA.

https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/c...-a3876931.html

Chloé Palmas · 02-07-2018, 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I have yet to be convinced that we will be worse off post Brexit, Andrew. If we get to improve our ability to trade, we will be better off.

In 9 months we will be out - we will have left the CU (or so May keeps saying) so how about we wait and see? At that point, you will not need to be convinced of anything - the proof will be right there to see.

We will have the ability to trade, but whether or not other nations are reciprocal to it I have no idea.

You have to keep remembering, nobody is going to be forced to trade with us, if they chose to, that is on them. If they don't, that is their call too, ultimately.

Andrew's post sums up what will happen at Chequers perfectly - we all know it.

We have a weak woman in charge - the worst PM that we have ever seen.

I am one of the few remainers that is looking forward to the consequences of leaving. The nationalists / small leave folks will be a brilliant guinea pig in the experiment ; if things don't work out, it will hurt them. They will be the poor that are hurt. I will be just fine, either way. Corporations will be fine. They will just leave the UK. The rich will be fine, they will just live like normal. It is the poor leave folks that will suffer.

I know this sounds horrible but when this all goes tits up do you think that it will be the likes of me / Daily Mail columnists / JRM and co that suffer?

We will all be fine ; it is the poor who voted to remain that I feel dreadful for.

**Damien** · 02-07-2018, 21:27

Imagine if they don't have an idea of what to ask for after Friday's 'discussions'? Proper drama.

1andrew1 · 02-07-2018, 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

Imagine if they don't have an idea of what to ask for after Friday's 'discussions'? Proper drama.

They will do. An extension.

---------- Post added at 22:29 ---------- Previous post was at 21:32 ----------

More procrastination/weakening the resolve of the Brexiters.

Quote:

Theresa May refused this evening to rule out binding Britain to the European Union’s single market or setting common customs tariffs with Brussels as she sidestepped attempts by MPs to pin down her Brexit strategy.
Attempting to hold her increasingly fractious MPs together, the prime minister pledged to deliver a deal that was good for business while not violating her red lines. Amid pointed, and at times hostile, questioning from her own backbenchers in the Commons, however, Mrs May sidestepped key questions on customs, regulation and transition before the crucial cabinet Brexit summit at Chequers on Thursday.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...ions-sm2nv0hgl

[Admin Edit: Use of provocative term removed-Follow the first post rules!]

Dave42 · 02-07-2018, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

They will do. An extension.

---------- Post added at 22:29 ---------- Previous post was at 21:32 ----------

More procrastination/weakening the resolve of the Brexiters.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...ions-sm2nv0hgl

the infighting gonna continue aint it with no government agreement

Carth · 02-07-2018, 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chloé Palmas

Thank you for the very kind words - I have kind of been following politics since I was like 5 and have had no choice but to learn a knack for a lot of it. My husband is very into politics, too and I would not have a conversation through an entire day at times unless I got some political know-how.

The weird thing is, I just happen to know a lot about politics / law but that is not to say I have all that much interest in it, lol.

wow . . . we'd never have guessed, honest

**Mick** · 02-07-2018, 22:48

BREAKING: European Union starts rule-of-law procedure against Poland, which could eventually see its EU voting rights removed. Source: Associated Press.

That's Poland surely now wanting to leave the corrupted EU then for sure.

The EU deserves all it gets as far as I am concerned. My justification to vote leave grows more affirmed every day.

Chloé Palmas · 03-07-2018, 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

Imagine if they don't have an idea of what to ask for after Friday's 'discussions'? Proper drama.

We can all so see that happening, right?

You can just see it in protest march form:

Leader / guy with megaphone:

(Question): What do we want?

The rest of the rally, answer:

Answer: We don't know!

Leader / question:

When do we want it?

Answer: March 2019!

Chloé Palmas · 03-07-2018, 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth

Just go for the Hard Brexit then the EU negotiate against it

Ummm...what?!?

They're the ones preparing for it:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...-with-new-laws

(That is an Express link btw - the most leave backing newspaper around IMO).

Exporters are preparing for it, too:

https://www.theguardian.com/business...vis-trade-deal

Banks are doing the same (investment and commercial):

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/15/germ...om-london.html

Pharma and Medtech is doing the same:

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-br...-idUKKBN1CL1TO

The Food manufacturing industry:

https://www.foodmanufacture.co.uk/Ar...-a-hard-Brexit

Let me guess...all project fear and 5th columnists in Britain, right? Corporations / the MSM...any other names you wish to throw in there? Remainers? People who wish to undermine Democracy?

I could list every single industry / nation / politician going. Nobody is going to campaign against it any more than they already have - and you know what is called? The article 50 process. That is a campaign to avert the HB that there seems to be no way around.

This is the last thing that anybody wants. But in dealing with May's incompetence they are factoring something in - it is called "reality". If she wasn't such an imbecile and had a competent bone in her body then there would be no need to prepare for a HB.

jonbxx · 03-07-2018, 09:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

BREAKING: European Union starts rule-of-law procedure against Poland, which could eventually see its EU voting rights removed. Source: Associated Press.

That's Poland surely now wanting to leave the corrupted EU then for sure.

The EU deserves all it gets as far as I am concerned. My justification to vote leave grows more affirmed every day.

So you would disagree that the judiciary should be independent of political influence and be less corrupt as per article 6 of the European Convention of Human Rights and the UN Charter on Human Rights?

Sephiroth · 03-07-2018, 09:57

It’s a shame that Mick brought that into the debate for the reasons implied by jonbxx’s observation.

That said, the EU is on fragile ground what with all the goings on. I don’t think it will implode if the likes of Poland & Hungary leave. I know quite a lot about Poland and they’ve had the major EU investments needed to bring them close to western standards; I imagine Hungary to be similarly endowed. But that’s one strand tearing at the EU fabric.

There are other strands, though. The Euro is on shaky foundations. France wants to federalise the Euro, thus making Germany the guarantor of debts made by the likes of Greece. Germany engineered the Euro so that would not happen and all funds would pour into German wealth that they now don’t want to share; note I only criticise the “engineering” aspect. The Euro can ultimately only succeed if the EU is a federal state.

Then there is Ireland. Varadkar really crapped on us - remember we went straight in with £7 billion to help bale Ireland out when the credit crunch started. That disgraceful man is exploiting the GFA for no better reason than to better his position and to protect Irish exports to the UK. And the EU has gotten straight onto that in order to force us to stay in the CU. If we have a hard border (so what if we do? And they’ll have to erect it) then any recurrence of terrorism will have to be on his conscience.

We have nothing to fear from WTO rules, even though that would not be ideal. The important thing is for the guvmin to be forthright about this (unless May knows something beneficial that we don’t).

We are a proud nation on both sides of the 52/48 split and we should only think of moving forward and calling the EU’s bluff.

Btw, if the Brussels lot stop our overflights, de-allow our driving licences and so on, no remainer should be so disloyal as to still like the EU.

**Mick** · 03-07-2018, 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbxx

So you would disagree that the judiciary should be independent of political influence and be less corrupt as per article 6 of the European Convention of Human Rights and the UN Charter on Human Rights?

Haven’t you figured it out yet?

I do not recognise any judicial ruling or policy from within a corrupted entity, the EU is one such entity.

**Damien** · 03-07-2018, 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

Haven’t you figured it out yet?

I do not recognise any judicial ruling or policy from within a corrupted entity, the EU is one such entity.

No he is talking about how the Polish government is interfering with the independence of their own courts.

jonbxx · 03-07-2018, 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

Haven’t you figured it out yet?

I do not recognise any judicial ruling or policy from within a corrupted entity, the EU is one such entity.

Even if Poland deliberately broke treaties it signed as a member of the European Union? If the EU didn't intervene, how would you feel about the European Court of Human Rights intervening? This case does appear to be in contravention of article 6, the right to a 'fair and public hearing within a reasonable time by an independent and impartial tribunal established by law'

Out of curiosity, apart from the EU, what other groups or organisations would you consider 'corrupted'?

Sephiroth · 03-07-2018, 12:37

I think Mick should avoid the side bar to satisfy jonbxx's curiosity.

The EU is a corrupted institution. It allows German to have an 8% surplus; it allowed Italy and Greece to put their > 3% deficit at Euro planning time into an off-balance sheet pot thereby meeting Germany's desire to engineer down the starting value of the Euro.

They are a corrupted organisation by not reorganising the CAP (which they promised Blair they would do) because France exerted pressure to preserve its own interests.

They are corrupt because the European Court of Auditors have found regularly that billions of Euros have not been paid in accordance with rules.

At least the EU Commission is holding Poland to account for its slide to the old ways.