22-12-2018, 20:58
|
#5566
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,235
|
Re: Brexit
I won't get over-involved in historic situations as I prefer to look forwards, not backwards. But just taking Pierre's first point. Nigel Farage was claiming as recently as 2017 that there would be no divorce bill. We now know that that is false. As an MEP, if he didn't know this then I suspect many others didn't either. And who can forget it taking a Brexit Secretary some two years to understand the importance of the Calais-Dover crossing for UK trade?
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b09e5f6cce7a5b
Last edited by 1andrew1; 22-12-2018 at 21:03.
|
|
|
22-12-2018, 21:45
|
#5567
|
The Dark Satanic Mills
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 12,053
|
Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
I won't get over-involved in historic situations as I prefer to look forwards, not backwards. But just taking Pierre's first point. Nigel Farage was claiming as recently as 2017 that there would be no divorce bill. We now know that that is false. As an MEP, if he didn't know this then I suspect many others didn't either.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b09e5f6cce7a5b
|
I get a bit fuzzy about the whole....time being linear...thing.
But as I recall, July 2017, was after all the months in 2016........
It was stated in all literature that U.K. would have to pay into the EU for any future relationship.....
That said.. I concede, there appears to be no mention of a “divorce bill” with the EU, I would argue it’s semantics, but l’ll concede when I have to, on that one point.
__________________
The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
|
|
|
22-12-2018, 21:49
|
#5568
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Northampton
Services: Virgin Media TV&BB 350Mb,
V6 STB
Posts: 7,866
|
Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
I won't get over-involved in historic situations as I prefer to look forwards, not backwards. But just taking Pierre's first point. Nigel Farage was claiming as recently as 2017 that there would be no divorce bill. We now know that that is false. As an MEP, if he didn't know this then I suspect many others didn't either. And who can forget it taking a Brexit Secretary some two years to understand the importance of the Calais-Dover crossing for UK trade?
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b09e5f6cce7a5b
|
The basis of the EU claiming a "divorce" bill was we had previously agreed a 5 year budget. If that is the case then if the budget had been set for 20 years, would we be liable for another 15 years on top. That would be just silly.
How could we really disagree with anything in that budget? It's not really allowed to disagree with Germany/France. There is nothing in the budgets than set out who is going to provide what money. That is in separate rules which are linked to being a member of the EU. The budgets specify money that would come back to the UK, but now it won't. For those reasons alone there is no real legal basis for most of the "divorce" bill.
All sorts of things create delays with the Dover-Calais crossing. EG weather, strikes, problems with the Eurotunnel. Everything carries on. It won't be a total blockade of any sort. Any delays in lorries for the continent getting into the UK, will be doubled when they return. That will create a lack of available lorries in the EU as they will be held up in the UK. It will add 1 or 2 days to each return journey. Similar to a bad weather situation.
|
|
|
22-12-2018, 23:02
|
#5569
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,235
|
Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking
The basis of the EU claiming a "divorce" bill was we had previously agreed a 5 year budget. If that is the case then if the budget had been set for 20 years, would we be liable for another 15 years on top. That would be just silly.
How could we really disagree with anything in that budget? It's not really allowed to disagree with Germany/France. There is nothing in the budgets than set out who is going to provide what money. That is in separate rules which are linked to being a member of the EU. The budgets specify money that would come back to the UK, but now it won't. For those reasons alone there is no real legal basis for most of the "divorce" bill.
All sorts of things create delays with the Dover-Calais crossing. EG weather, strikes, problems with the Eurotunnel. Everything carries on. It won't be a total blockade of any sort. Any delays in lorries for the continent getting into the UK, will be doubled when they return. That will create a lack of available lorries in the EU as they will be held up in the UK. It will add 1 or 2 days to each return journey. Similar to a bad weather situation.
|
The exam question was: What do we know now that we didn't know in June 2016. A Brexit Secretary has fessed up that he didn't get the importance of Dover-Calais until recently and we now know that despite their denials until recently, there will be a divorce bill. The article I linked to listed some 100 other things.
How significant the above two issues are is a separate question entirely which doubtless people will have different views depending on their viewpoints and knowledge.
|
|
|
22-12-2018, 23:36
|
#5570
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Northampton
Services: Virgin Media TV&BB 350Mb,
V6 STB
Posts: 7,866
|
Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
The exam question was: What do we know now that we didn't know in June 2016. A Brexit Secretary has fessed up that he didn't get the importance of Dover-Calais until recently and we now know that despite their denials until recently, there will be a divorce bill. The article I linked to listed some 100 other things.
How significant the above two issues are is a separate question entirely which doubtless people will have different views depending on their viewpoints and knowledge.
|
So where was the basis for the "divorce" bill set out before the vote? It's just a relatively made up number. with no basis in law. The agreement to a "divorce" bill was just made to try and smooth over an agreement with the EU. It is usual to set out the costs of ending an agreement when the agreement is started.
What was or wasn't known in June 2016, couldn't possibly have been known beforehand, as it depends on what, if any, agreement can be made with the EU. The rest of the EU will also have problems, but they are under the impression that we will give in to any, and all of their demands.
|
|
|
22-12-2018, 23:54
|
#5571
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,235
|
Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking
So where was the basis for the "divorce" bill set out before the vote? It's just a relatively made up number. with no basis in law. The agreement to a "divorce" bill was just made to try and smooth over an agreement with the EU. It is usual to set out the costs of ending an agreement when the agreement is started
What was or wasn't known in June 2016, couldn't possibly have been known beforehand, as it depends on what, if any, agreement can be made with the EU. The rest of the EU will also have problems, but they are under the impression that we will give in to any, and all of their demands.
|
Leading Brexiters were stating as fact in 2016 that there would be no divorce bill. We've subsequently learnt that this is wrong regardless of whether or not a transition phase is successfully agreed by the UK Parliament.
Due to the divided UK position and the superior size of the EU, many Leavers are now wising up to the fact that the statement "They need us more than we need them" was a a little misleading. I fear Leavers are in for a disappointing few years if they expect the balance of power to change. As I said back in 2016, sorry, but size matters in negotiations. That's why your local corner shop can't match your local supermarket's prices.
Last edited by 1andrew1; 23-12-2018 at 00:15.
|
|
|
23-12-2018, 01:10
|
#5572
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: At the Leaving door
Posts: 4,050
|
Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
As I said back in 2016, sorry, but size matters in negotiations. That's why your local corner shop can't match your local supermarket's prices.
|
If you're going to compare (or use as an analogy) supermarkets with the EU, it simply reinforces my belief we'd be better off without either
|
|
|
23-12-2018, 08:49
|
#5573
|
10 yrs same company 😁
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Expanding Town with crap roads
Age: 64
Services: ? BB, basic phone. Share of Disney+
Posts: 7,665
|
Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth
If you're going to compare (or use as an analogy) supermarkets with the EU, it simply reinforces my belief we'd be better off without either
|
And yet France, with an economy run on local business rather than huge chains is set to overtake the UK in terms of GDP rankings.
|
|
|
23-12-2018, 09:47
|
#5574
|
vox populi vox dei
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: the last resort
Services: every thing
Posts: 13,739
|
Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K
We also know that Theresa May is useless. I defy anyone to argue with that !
|
Lets put the vote on that on hold until we can get clarification
__________________
To be or not to be, woke is the question Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer. The slings and arrows of outrageous wokedome, Or to take arms against a sea of wokies. And by opposing end them.
|
|
|
23-12-2018, 10:05
|
#5575
|
Mum 15/08/46 - 30/09/20
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Galactic Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha, www.daves-world.co.uk. A secret Moonbase (shh don't tell anybody)
Age: 55
Services: 1 V6, 2x1TB TiVo, SH3. Samsung Galaxy Note 10+ 5G, Ton's of Smart Home stuff, & Cuddy Toy
Posts: 16,886
|
Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K
We also know that Theresa May is useless. I defy anyone to argue with that !
|
She is only useless if she has a 2nd referendrum, before the 1st is carried out.
__________________
STAY AT HOME: I found out that mum will never walk again as the coronavirus attacked her nervous system. She died on September 30th, wearing a mask and she still might be alive today.
|
|
|
23-12-2018, 10:55
|
#5576
|
The Invisible Woman
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: between Portsmouth and Southampton.
Age: 71
Services: VM XL TV,50 MB VM BB,VM landline, Tivo
Posts: 40,164
|
Re: Brexit
She's useless because while everyone is concentrating on Brexit the rest of our infrastructure,social,welfare and health is gradually eroding away.
__________________
Hell is empty and all the devils are here. Shakespeare..
|
|
|
23-12-2018, 11:00
|
#5577
|
vox populi vox dei
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: the last resort
Services: every thing
Posts: 13,739
|
Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J
She's useless because while everyone is concentrating on Brexit the rest of our infrastructure,social,welfare and health is gradually eroding away.
|
I thought we had various Government ministers/departments looking after that stuff.
__________________
To be or not to be, woke is the question Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer. The slings and arrows of outrageous wokedome, Or to take arms against a sea of wokies. And by opposing end them.
|
|
|
23-12-2018, 11:08
|
#5578
|
Still alive and fighting
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In the land of beyond and beyond.
Services: XL BB, 3 360 boxes , XL TV.
Posts: 56,314
|
Re: Brexit
__________________
“The only lesson you can learn from history is that it repeats itself”
Last edited by denphone; 23-12-2018 at 11:12.
|
|
|
23-12-2018, 11:10
|
#5579
|
Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,396
|
Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf
I thought we had various Government ministers/departments looking after that stuff.
|
With a limited supply of money and limited legislative timetable Brexit is affecting their ability to do these things.
Wasted time/resources planning for a no deal scenario despite it not being Government policy to seek that outcome.
https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...costing-brexit
|
|
|
23-12-2018, 11:50
|
#5580
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,235
|
Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf
I thought we had various Government ministers/departments looking after that stuff.
|
I'm sure the Brexit elite are pleased that you believe that. The reality is somewhat different, as we've seen with the drone legislation being stopped, to take one of many examples.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J
She's useless because while everyone is concentrating on Brexit the rest of our infrastructure, social welfare and health is gradually eroding away.
|
This cartoon sums it up quite nicely.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Brm5nHEHVVQ/
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (0 members and 4 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 16:44.
|