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Old 30-06-2018, 09:12   #3346
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Re: Brexit discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
The British Government is well aware of how the EU negotiates. Lay all your cards on the table and they will just rubbish them from the start , for no good reason.

We are playing the EU at their own game and they don't like it. We will come up with a take it or leave it solution at a late hour - just see what they make of that! To refuse it would incur fury from other EU countries who value their trade with GB.

We assume that if you were leading the negotiations, you would have rolled over to have your tummy tickled (or perhaps a punch in the kidneys) a long time ago.
Do see just the two possible negotiations scenarios then? Tell them want we want (what we really, really want) and issue a "take it or leave it" ultimatum or give in to everything they want.

I fear this belligerent and rather myopic approach drives the internal divisions in the Tory party which is the guiding hand on the current (lack of) progress.

---------- Post added at 09:12 ---------- Previous post was at 09:07 ----------

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Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
Are you old?
Of course I am "Old"! If I wasn't, I would not have the "wisdom and experience" to know I am right
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Old 30-06-2018, 10:14   #3347
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Re: Brexit discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 View Post
Do see just the two possible negotiations scenarios then? Tell them want we want (what we really, really want) and issue a "take it or leave it" ultimatum or give in to everything they want.

I fear this belligerent and rather myopic approach drives the internal divisions in the Tory party which is the guiding hand on the current (lack of) progress.
There are different negotiating tactics available of course, but I was explaining that the EU have form when it comes to being particularly difficult. Cameron asked nicely and look where it got him. If something doesn't work, you don't keep making the same mistake over and over and hope for a better result, because it won't happen, will it?

So it's no more Mr Nice Guy this time around.

You will here lots of talk about how much May has already given away in these talks, and so I think it's reasonable to say we're not giving any more, now it's your turn.

---------- Post added at 10:14 ---------- Previous post was at 10:09 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Try and play the ball and not the man, Old Boy. And why the Royal we in "We assume.."
Anyway, Barnier issued an infographic showing exactly what the implications of various red lines would be once the UK issued Article 50. The EU can't alter its constitution to change these facts without the agreement of all EU members. And one key objective is to ensure that a country will be better off as an EU member than being a third country, or other countries might be tempted to leave as well.
It was right of me to ask what you would do, Andrew, given your constant criticism of the Government's approach.

By the way, i did miss out a word when I wrote 'we assume'. I meant to write 'we can assume'.

Yes, we've heard a lot about how the EU 'must stick to the rules'. However, when the rules are preventing you from achieving what you want, you can always change them! Or perhaps, a more practical approach would be to 'interpret' them.
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Old 30-06-2018, 11:08   #3348
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Re: Brexit discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post

It was right of me to ask what you would do, Andrew, given your constant criticism of the Government's approach.

By the way, i did miss out a word when I wrote 'we assume'. I meant to write 'we can assume'.

Yes, we've heard a lot about how the EU 'must stick to the rules'. However, when the rules are preventing you from achieving what you want, you can always change them! Or perhaps, a more practical approach would be to 'interpret' them.
You did not ask me how I would negotiate, you described how I would do so incompetently. There have only been four hours of negotiations this year between David Davis and his opposite number. I suggest that if you or I did one day of negotiating, we would have doubled his output. A quick win.
The main failure by the Government has not been to decide its position before invoking Article 50. That puts it at a disadvantage timewise.
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Old 30-06-2018, 11:08   #3349
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by Maggy J View Post
I thought this was a divorce not a game of cards.
I think it's more a game of 'blind mans bluff'


Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 View Post
Do see just the two possible negotiations scenarios then? Tell them want we want (what we really, really want) and issue a "take it or leave it" ultimatum

Isn't that how the EU negotiate?
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Old 30-06-2018, 11:48   #3350
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Re: Brexit discussion

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