Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797] - Page 474

bluecar1 · 23-05-2008, 21:49

as a side note, i looked at the OIX website and came up on this http://www.oix.com/about/introducing/OIX.html

it gives a fair idea about the level of data thats going to be collected and how it can be used to target ads, skip the animation and look on the page re channels and the next one .

scary amount of data and granularity

Dephormation · 23-05-2008, 22:02

So if I've got that correct
webwise.bt.com = www.oix.net = www.oix.net (A 88.208.250.85)

On my Windows/Linux box webwise.bt.com is resolving to 88.208.250.66/ 88.208.250.85/ 88.208.248.102 apparently a round robin DNS (and not responding to ping)

Similarly www.oix.net 88.208.250.85/ 89.145.112.31/ 89.145.112.32
Similarly www.oix.com 88.208.250.85/ 89.145.112.31/ 89.145.112.32

But...
www.webwise.bt.com is a US address (A 207.44.186.90) (and is responding to ping)

Have I got that right? (nb I'm not a BT subscriber)

---------- Post added at 22:02 ---------- Previous post was at 21:59 ----------

http://www.bt.com/ -> completely blank?!

bluecar1 · 23-05-2008, 22:03

from a bt connection

C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC>nslookup
Default Server: api.home
Address: 192.168.1.254

> www.oix.net
Server: api.home
Address: 192.168.1.254

Non-authoritative answer:
Name: www.oix.net
Addresses: 88.208.250.85, 89.145.112.31, 89.145.112.32

> www.oix.com
Server: api.home
Address: 192.168.1.254

Non-authoritative answer:
Name: www.oix.com
Addresses: 88.208.250.85, 89.145.112.31, 89.145.112.32

> www.webwise.bt.com
Server: api.home
Address: 192.168.1.254

Non-authoritative answer:
Name: www.webwise.bt.com
Address: 207.44.186.90

Dephormation · 23-05-2008, 22:15

So (if I've got this right) a search on www.bt.co.uk for Webwise returns one result, which takes you to a broken link on a US web server where you will be able to 'opt out'.

The confusingly similar UK site (which you can't find on a BT search) may resolve to various addresses outside the BT network, and may even resolve to a machine owned by Phorm/OIX.

At least when you are assigned your UID it won't be possible for Phorm to link it to your... oh God....

---------- Post added at 22:15 ---------- Previous post was at 22:08 ----------

From www.webwise.bt.com

How do I switch BT Webwise on or off?
When BT Webwise is available in your area, simply go to www.bt.com/webwise and click 'BT Webwise Off' or 'BT Webwise On'.

However

www.bt.com/webwise

redirects to

http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/index.php (ie, the US "ThePlanet.com Internet Services, Inc." server)

So even when you think you're visiting a www.bt.com url, you're being sent to the states to opt in/out.

Rchivist · 23-05-2008, 22:31

Found this text on an OWA page referred to on Beta BT forums today
https://mail.bt.com/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=

The warnings on the top of the page took my fancy.

LEGAL WARNING: You have accessed a computer managed by BT. You are required to have authorisation from BT before you proceed and you are strictly limited to the use set out within that authorisation.

Unauthorised access to or misuse of this system is prohibited and constitutes an offence under the Computer Misuse Act 1990. If you disclose any information obtained through this system without authority BT may take legal action against you.

Do not open attachments on PCs that are open to use by non BT people as copies may be left behind in TEMP areas on the PC.

You must take care when accessing commercially sensitive information in a public place and be aware of people viewing information 'over your shoulder'.

They seem to be aware of the Computer Misuse Act 1990. It's good to know that they take it so seriously. I might just borrow the wording for my own web site.
I wonder who they would get to enforce a breach of that legislation? It's so difficult nowadays to get anyone interested in computer crime. Maybe they use their local police?

Dephormation · 23-05-2008, 22:32

Just for completeness, with Dephormation's cunning new logging feature you see the redirects

Request Name: http://www.bt.com/webwise
Request Name: http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/index.php
Location Change: http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/index.php

bluecar1 · 23-05-2008, 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dephormation

So (if I've got this right) a search on www.bt.co.uk for Webwise returns one result, which takes you to a broken link on a US web server where you will be able to 'opt out'.

The confusingly similar UK site (which you can't find on a BT search) may resolve to various addresses outside the BT network, and may even resolve to a machine owned by Phorm/OIX.

At least when you are assigned your UID it won't be possible for Phorm to link it to your... oh God....

---------- Post added at 22:15 ---------- Previous post was at 22:08 ----------

From www.webwise.bt.com

be good to get hold ok a couple of cookies and check them

i have a feeling that as the phorm US server will be giving out cookies it may not be quite as random as they say, i suspect if you look at the number in hex or binary and opt-in / out a few time and clearing you cookies etc you will either see a correlation to an ip address or something similar
as the bit of java noted on badphorm seems to suggest they will be able to track across all three networks / share data between them

the yahoo cookie has poscode and bt yahoo id information in it they could no doubt access that as well when setting THEIR unique id

but until next week when we start to see these cookies it is all speculation

peter

How do I switch BT Webwise on or off?
When BT Webwise is available in your area, simply go to www.bt.com/webwise and click 'BT Webwise Off' or 'BT Webwise On'.

However

www.bt.com/webwise

redirects to

http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/index.php (ie, the US "ThePlanet.com Internet Services, Inc." server)

So even when you think you're visiting a www.bt.com url, you're being sent to the states to opt in/out.

Rchivist · 23-05-2008, 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dephormation

So (if I've got this right) a search on www.bt.co.uk for Webwise returns one result, which takes you to a broken link on a US web server where you will be able to 'opt out'.

The confusingly similar UK site (which you can't find on a BT search) may resolve to various addresses outside the BT network, and may even resolve to a machine owned by Phorm/OIX.

At least when you are assigned your UID it won't be possible for Phorm to link it to your... oh God....

---------- Post added at 22:15 ---------- Previous post was at 22:08 ----------

From www.webwise.bt.com

How do I switch BT Webwise on or off?
When BT Webwise is available in your area, simply go to www.bt.com/webwise and click 'BT Webwise Off' or 'BT Webwise On'.

However

www.bt.com/webwise

redirects to

http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/index.php (ie, the US "ThePlanet.com Internet Services, Inc." server)

So even when you think you're visiting a www.bt.com url, you're being sent to the states to opt in/out.

Yes - I've been pointing that out for weeks now!

And when you go to the Contact Us page there,
http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/contact.php
they ask for your BT phone account number, as well as your email address and phone number - most of which they say is "required" - and remember this is going to a NON BT site.

You really couldn't make this up - no one would believe you.

The really good bit was when FASTHOSTS had a major server glitch a few weeks ago. And BT Webwise pages went down with it. Sort of gave the game away.

I've sent off an email to BT again to ask about this FASTHOSTS/THEPLANETCOM stuff, to try and find out which bits of the pretty Webwise diagram are where. I doubt they will want to tell me.

Dephormation · 23-05-2008, 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Jones

Yes - I've been pointing that out for weeks now!

I know...

But I thought they'd told you it was all going to be on a BT network.

It looks like its still all over the shop, and even risks putting UID/IP data in the hands of the people who said they wouldn't have access to your IP because it was all within the BT network (and Phorm consider an IP is PII*). Doesn't look ready for an imminent trial. At least, not a technical trial.

And the Phorm.com domain seems to have been recently distanced from the webwise.bt.com domain (though strangely not OIX).

Yuk.

* paradoxically its not as personally identifiable as a unique User Identifier

serial · 23-05-2008, 23:00

It's good to see they've used ThePlanet.com, over on BadPhorm ilago points out that ThePlanet Internet Services, Inc. is listed as one of the top 10 phishing site host networks. http://www.phishtank.com/stats/2008/04/

SelfProtection · 23-05-2008, 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Jones

Yes - I've been pointing that out for weeks now!

The really good bit was when FASTHOSTS had a major server glitch a few weeks ago. And BT Webwise pages went down with it. Sort of gave the game away.

I've sent off an email to BT again to ask about this FASTHOSTS/THEPLANETCOM stuff, to try and find out which bits of the pretty Webwise diagram are where. I doubt they will want to tell me.

As I was trying to point out before my router blocked my message (it was being redirected through a Phorm Site outward bound!)
I am at the moment using a VPN Service to avoid BT redirects!

If the "Phorm" test is performed in this way; through an OIX web site, it may be possible to not use a cookie but, there will be NO way that the IP address of the Account Holder would not be known!

The fact that the redirect is/was a "direct" connection to an unknown & uncontrolled foreign website, would give rise to a very strong case of not compliance with D.P.A Rules!

bluecar1 · 23-05-2008, 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dephormation

I know...

But I thought they'd told you it was all going to be on a BT network.

It looks like its still all over the shop, and even risks putting UID/IP data in the hands of the people who said they wouldn't have access to your IP because it was all within the BT network (and Phorm consider an IP is PII*). Doesn't look ready for an imminent trial. At least, not a technical trial.

And the Phorm.com domain seems to have been recently distanced from the webwise.bt.com domain (though strangely not OIX).

Yuk.

* paradoxically its not as personally identifiable as a unique User Identifier

hang on a mo, what about DPA, no data being processed outside the EU????

opt-in / out being done outside EU ????

Rchivist · 23-05-2008, 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by SelfProtection

As I was trying to point out before my router blocked my message (it was being redirected through a Phorm Site outward bound!)
I am at the moment using a VPN Service to avoid BT redirects!

If the "Phorm" test is performed in this way; through an OIX web site, it may be possible to not use a cookie but, there will be NO way that the IP address of the Account Holder would not be known!

The fact that the redirect is/was a "direct" connection to an unknown & uncontrolled foreign website, would give rise to a very strong case of not compliance with D.P.A Rules!

It may just be a case of feeding out the rope gradually until we think BT have enough to strangle themselves with and hopefully, Phorm with them. It really is getting quite interesting.

I'm afraid I haven't a clue about all this technical IP stuff. So I hope some other BT customers are better clued up than me.

I've got that Dephormation addon but haven't a clue what all the logs mean. But I will gladly do whatever Pete tells me to and make logs available.

mark777 · 23-05-2008, 23:04

It seems that BT is preparing to pimp, which begs a question. (Quite a few in fact

)

Are any BT users prepared to opt in and out in order to help the tech bods with a technical analysis?

I wouldn't mind betting that frequent anti-phorm posters using BT as an ISP do not get an invite into the BT trial. They are probably identified by BT.

Perhaps some lurkers might be prepared to do this?

Perhaps it would be useful for the tech/legal bods to suggest what might be useful to record e.g.
what site you wanted when the invitation pops up?
what was the URL of the invite etc?
screen shots etc.

Should we build a check list?

Also, people with information may prefer to PM a tech bod with it (just to worry BT!), rather than post here. Perhaps the tech bods might like to confirm who would like to receive such information?

Time to get prepared for the storm.

EDIT : I see portly giraffe is logged in. Perhaps you might be prepared to host a checklist for willing people who are offered the trial on inphormationdesk?

Rchivist · 23-05-2008, 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluecar1

hang on a mo, what about DPA, no data being processed outside the EU????

opt-in / out being done outside EU ????

There you go - scaremongering again. It's people like you who are holding the internet back.