Government & Post Election Discussion

[denphone]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Wanting a 'no deal' Brexit is not simply a right wing aspiration as you imply. A lot of Labour voters want this as well.

l never implied anything other then why another Conservative centrist politician left the party to go to another political party as that is the real reality and if some don't like that reality then tough..

[Sephiroth]

The word seems to be marmite. If the public see it the same way Boris is sunk.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

The word seems to be marmite. If the public see it the same way Boris is sunk.

And that is the vexed question when there is a general election as no one knows how it will work out as the 9 year polling graph trend l saw earlier this week suggest that there will be no majority government if those trends play out at the forthcoming general election.

[Gavin78]

Lets face it TM lost her party members while in power she let them go rogue. Boris on the other hand is taking no crap and trying to bring stability back into the party don't you think?

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Gavin78

Lets face it TM lost her party members while in power she let them go rogue. Boris on the other hand is taking no crap and trying to bring stability back into the party don't you think?

Boris Johnson like Jeremy Corbyn is a great polarising figure within their own parties as we have to remember what party members might like others who support both those parties might have a entirely different perspective on.

On stability the clear consensus is that both leading political parties are as unstable as they have ever been currently.

[jfman]

Why would a working class Labour voter favour no deal, which is essentially a Conservative attack on the state structures by privatisation in a future trade deal with the USA, over some kind of deal with the EU?

No deal is absolutely a right wing aspiration and it’s important it gets called out as such.

[Gavin78]

Originally Posted by jfman

Why would a working class Labour voter favour no deal, which is essentially a Conservative attack on the state structures by privatisation in a future trade deal with the USA, over some kind of deal with the EU?

No deal is absolutely a right wing aspiration and it’s important it gets called out as such.

I would be happy with a no deal why should it get called out? privatisation has been happening for years before brexit was mentioned so what's new?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Gavin78

I would be happy with a no deal why should it get called out? privatisation has been happening for years before brexit was mentioned so what's new?

Because it would go further. Saying a similar event happened before Brexit so it won’t be so bad after, or due to, Brexit is a false comparison.

Much like the 2008 banking crisis was used as an excuse to roll back the state any post No Deal recession will be used as an excuse leaving many state assets to US vultures. Farage wants us all to have medical insurance for a start.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by denphone

l never implied anything other then why another Conservative centrist politician left the party to go to another political party as that is the real reality and if some don't like that reality then tough..

I was responding to your comment about the Conservatives lurching too far to the right, so my comment was pertinent.

Brexit has split Conservatives and Labour. Corbyn's about-turns and the rhetoric of Starmer, McDonnell and Thornberry may have led some to think that a 'no deal' Brexit' is an aspiration only of the far right, but that is way off beam, and is clearly designed to confuse. I was trying to correct that position.

[denphone]

Just to prove how up and down the opinion polls are here is the latest one.

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 28% (-2)
LAB: 27% (-2)
LDEM: 20% (+3)
BREX: 13% (-)
GRN: 5% (+1)

via ComRes
Chgs. w/ 08 Sep

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by denphone

And that is the vexed question when there is a general election as no one knows how it will work out as the 9 year polling graph trend l saw earlier this week suggest that there will be no majority government if those trends play out at the forthcoming general election.

The position will change dramatically when Boris delivers Brexit, deal or no deal. The public want decisive leadership, not all this wishy-washy obstructionist politics we have grown used to over the last couple of years.

---------- Post added at 14:19 ---------- Previous post was at 14:18 ----------

Originally Posted by Gavin78

Lets face it TM lost her party members while in power she let them go rogue. Boris on the other hand is taking no crap and trying to bring stability back into the party don't you think?

Agreed, Gavin.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I was responding to your comment about the Conservatives lurching too far to the right, so my comment was pertinent.

Brexit has split Conservatives and Labour. Corbyn's about-turns and the rhetoric of Starmer, McDonnell and Thornberry may have led some to think that a 'no deal' Brexit' is an aspiration only of the far right, but that is way off beam, and is clearly designed to confuse. I was trying to correct that position.

Talk to moderate voting Conservatives and those who have left the party and that is their regular train of thought.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

Why would a working class Labour voter favour no deal, which is essentially a Conservative attack on the state structures by privatisation in a future trade deal with the USA, over some kind of deal with the EU?

No deal is absolutely a right wing aspiration and it’s important it gets called out as such.

Maybe you'd better ask them! The fact is, that's what they want, and remainers will never understand because they are so wedded to the EU.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The position will change dramatically when Boris delivers Brexit, deal or no deal. The public want decisive leadership, not all this wishy-washy obstructionist politics we have grown used to over the last couple of years..

Well three plus years of this shitshow has not changed anything so suffice to say many don't share your over optimistic confidence.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

Because it would go further. Saying a similar event happened before Brexit so it won’t be so bad after, or due to, Brexit is a false comparison.

Much like the 2008 banking crisis was used as an excuse to roll back the state any post No Deal recession will be used as an excuse leaving many state assets to US vultures. Farage wants us all to have medical insurance for a start.

You really are clutching at straws with these arguments, jfman. Anyway, carry on regardless...

---------- Post added at 14:34 ---------- Previous post was at 14:23 ----------

Originally Posted by denphone

Talk to moderate voting Conservatives and those who have left the party and that is their regular train of thought.

Only a minority of MPs have left the party, Den and the vast majority of Conservative voters I speak to are all for Brexit.

---------- Post added at 14:42 ---------- Previous post was at 14:34 ----------

Originally Posted by denphone

Well three plus years of this shitshow has not changed anything so suffice to say many don't share your over optimistic confidence.

It's not over-confidence, and clearly you are underestimating Boris.

He will win the appeal on Tuesday because the Bill of Rights clarify that the courts should not interfere with House of Commons procedure.

Parliament will not re-convene until after the conference season. When it does re-convene, we will have the Queen's Speech, and if further wrecking tactics look inevitable, Parliament can be prorogued again until 1 November. Then a General Election will be called for and the opposition will have run out of options to oppose it. The wreckers are running out of options now.