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Old 08-10-2021, 23:47   #2791
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
That's for salaries over 537,200 SEK (52%). It's 32% up to that figure.
And the average salary is 547,464 SEK, which means over 50% pay the higher rate (unlike U.K., where it’s around 10%).
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Old 08-10-2021, 23:51   #2792
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Re: Britain outside the EU

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Do we really want to be Sweden with the public spending to GDP ratio they have? Many of our members would be physically sick at the prospect.
I suspect ours has crept up during the pandemic with furlough and PPE amongst others.
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Old 09-10-2021, 08:42   #2793
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Re: Britain outside the EU

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Do we really want to be Sweden with the public spending to GDP ratio they have? Many of our members would be physically sick at the prospect.
Will it be better than this N Korea model we are following now ,no fuel, no food no gas, no electric , no turkeys [apart from the HOC]no meat.............
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Old 09-10-2021, 09:22   #2794
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Sweden is a wonderful place and those with whom I interact are very happy.
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Old 09-10-2021, 09:51   #2795
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
Will it be better than this N Korea model we are following now ,no fuel, no food no gas, no electric , no turkeys [apart from the HOC]no meat.............
But we do have countless 'Z' list celebs clamouring for attention, although sadly lack the firing squad to deal with them
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Old 09-10-2021, 10:01   #2796
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Re: Britain outside the EU

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Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
Will it be better than this N Korea model we are following now ,no fuel, no food no gas, no electric , no turkeys [apart from the HOC]no meat.............
Not everywhere is like North Lincs…


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Old 09-10-2021, 10:20   #2797
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Anyway, speaking of post-apocalyptic hellholes, interesting thread on Twitter this morning…

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...812989442.html

Quote:
The EU's proposals for addressing the problems in NI are substantive & far reaching. They will effectively do away with all paperwork for goods destined for NI - instead of a border in Irish Sea, think of a “green” (NI-bound) & “red” (Single Market) lane

It has taken a lot of time & leadership from @MarosSefcovic & @vonderleyen to get Commission services & member states into line. Although EU capitals haven't seen the final package & all the details, they've been socialised with what's coming

The Commission's ambition has been driven by 1) a desire to institute practical fixes to improve experience of citizens & businesses in NI, but also, importantly, 2) tactics

If HMG now says “no/not enough”, it will be easier to rally member states behind a tough response, as @EU_Commission will be able to credibly claim it went “as far as it could”. EU unity will be key weapon in any ensuing standoff; these proposals make it more likely it'll hold

Unsurprisingly, EU will offer no concessions on ECJ. For this reason alone, senior EU officials are resigned to fairly hostile response from @DavidGHFrost. This may come via A16 notification or “legal limbo” with ongoing negotiations & grace periods, where Protocol isn't applied

But EU officials are clear sighted about where both could lead: de facto, Ireland's place in Single Market being called into question. Put differently: they clearly see @BorisJohnson cynical calculation, that absent E-W checks, Bxl won't force Dublin to swallow a N-S border

That calculation is, of course, correct. But I fear HMG is massively underestimating the likely EU response in these circumstances - circumstances where there would be growing pressure to institute checks & controls between Ireland & France & Ireland & other EU member states

No German Chancellor or French President would side with HMG putting a member state in such an untenable situation. The v purpose of Single Market is to eliminate barriers between members. If UK's actions call that into question, the EU's response could be much more forceful

Not a silly micro line-by-line tariff retaliation, but the *suspension of the entire zero tariff/zero quota deal*. There's a termination clause in TCA that can be triggered unilaterally: many in Bxl think a big simple move like this would be needed for UK to finally understand

That this is existential. Recall “sequencing” in Brexit negotiations - WA/Irish border 1st, trade talks 2nd - existed precisely because EU wanted to ensure it locked down a solution to Irish border. If that's now being called into question by HMG, many think the TCA should be too

No WA, no TCA. Hard Brexit/WTO tariffs. The politics won't be easy. But many in Bxl rightly fear that once A16 is triggered, no British PM, let alone @BorisJohnson will be able to stand Protocol back up. With it will disappear the poss of a negotiated solution to Irish border

Senior EU officials are VERY tired. They think HMG simply wants to “fight every day”. Still, EU will assume more risk & further bend Single Market for UK next week. HMG may not bite. But they should do so with an appreciation of the full consequences that then might follow
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Old 09-10-2021, 10:27   #2798
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Fascinating stuff. Can’t wait for next developments. From what I’ve read, the UK should agree to give it a go and see how it pans out.
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Old 09-10-2021, 10:33   #2799
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
Not everywhere is like North Lincs…


Wouldn't know i've never lived there.
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Old 09-10-2021, 10:40   #2800
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Can you name any plan, just out of curiousity?

I mean a “high wage, high skill” economy doesn’t spawn itself into existence by itself. Otherwise anyone could do it.

So tell me: what’s the plan?
Maybe you should ask Boris - he's the one with the vision.

Ths basic idea is that with the Europeans going back to their countries, vacancies are created here, and if employers can't fill the vacancies, they will increase wages to attract more people. The more vacancies there are, the less excuse there is for able bodied people to be receiving benefits, so its a virtuous circle.

Employers have the task of attracting our own people to jobs with appropriate salaries, by making jobs more interesting and by training those without the skills.

I was reading about the way lorry drivers are treated recently, and it's no wonder employers have difficulty attracting them. We need to start treating these people with respect and provide at least the basic facilities, such as lorry stops with decent loos and to stop all the hanging around at warehouses while they wait for people to turn up to unload the lorries.

There's lots we can do to make jobs more attractive, and if we can increase productivity, we will need less of them and use the savings to improve conditions.

Ministers understand what is expected of them - it's up to them to work out the detail, not the PM.
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Old 09-10-2021, 11:27   #2801
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Maybe you should ask Boris - he's the one with the vision.

Ths basic idea is that with the Europeans going back to their countries, vacancies are created here, and if employers can't fill the vacancies, they will increase wages to attract more people. The more vacancies there are, the less excuse there is for able bodied people to be receiving benefits, so its a virtuous circle.
Higher wages = higher costs for associated goods and services. Making us less competitive on a global level regardless of tariffs. Less consumers to absorb costs from. Increased inflationary pressure.

Quote:
Employers have the task of attracting our own people to jobs with appropriate salaries, by making jobs more interesting and by training those without the skills.

I was reading about the way lorry drivers are treated recently, and it's no wonder employers have difficulty attracting them. We need to start treating these people with respect and provide at least the basic facilities, such as lorry stops with decent loos and to stop all the hanging around at warehouses while they wait for people to turn up to unload the lorries.

There's lots we can do to make jobs more attractive, and if we can increase productivity, we will need less of them and use the savings to improve conditions.

Ministers understand what is expected of them - it's up to them to work out the detail, not the PM.
If we can increase productivity we can employ less people. That doesn’t sound like it’s going to drive wages up creating excess supply of potential workers.
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Old 09-10-2021, 11:50   #2802
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Re: Britain outside the EU

What does 'increase productivity' actually mean for the UK?

How many items in your home are 'made' in the UK?

Here's a quick list of general household items . .

Washing machine
Dishwasher
Microwave
Fridge/Freezer
TV/Monitor
Hoovers
HiFi
Computer/Laptop/Tablet/Printer
Internet related items (modems/routers/hubs/)
Phones (mobile & landline)
Power tools
Clothes/Curtains/Bedding/Carpets & Rugs
Furniture

if 50% more of those are made every year, who benefits?
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Old 09-10-2021, 12:20   #2803
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
Wouldn't know i've never lived there.
Strange - you provided stats about COVID from North and North-East Lincolnshire, and said "here"...

Now, I understand your reticence to be identified with the region of web-footed twelve-fingered more closely related than they should be Yellowbellies, but to the outside world, the only difference between North Lincolnshire and North East Lincolnshire is the fishy smell of the locals...
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Old 09-10-2021, 12:23   #2804
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Re: Britain outside the EU

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Maybe you should ask Boris - he's the one with the vision.



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Poor sod must have RP then.....
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Old 09-10-2021, 13:41   #2805
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth View Post
What does 'increase productivity' actually mean for the UK?

How many items in your home are 'made' in the UK?

Here's a quick list of general household items . .

Washing machine
Dishwasher
Microwave
Fridge/Freezer
TV/Monitor
Hoovers
HiFi
Computer/Laptop/Tablet/Printer
Internet related items (modems/routers/hubs/)
Phones (mobile & landline)
Power tools
Clothes/Curtains/Bedding/Carpets & Rugs
Furniture

if 50% more of those are made every year, who benefits?
None of them are made here or at least a very small amount is.


But, also, none of them or very few of them are made in the EU either.


Most of the world imports these items from China, which fundamentally makes anything related to them not a Brexit issue - other than that we would then now have to make our own trade deal with China for them if we'd been previously using the EU's (though our items would presumably be different anyway, due to plugs, and would either need UK plugs moulded on or screwed over the Euro ones).


And given that the UK must still be a high importer of these items with or without Brexit, then there in principle shouldn't be issues with them.


But then, all of this ignores things like the Ever Green and Covid related shutdowns...
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