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Old 04-10-2021, 20:29   #2701
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Weíre getting our turkey from the local farm shop. Locally raised, and not a trace of horse.

Iím not buying EU stuff now if I can avoid it. I hope this government finds alternative countries to do business with in place of the EU. They are treating us so badly, we shouldnít be giving them our business.
You sound like idiot MP Chris Loader, he's delighted the supermarkets are struggling and the supply chains are falling apart because we'll all be able to visit the local farmer for our milk just like in the good old days, wonder if the inner city folk have occurred to him at all. You then have David Davis blaming businesses for not being better prepared, you couldn't make it up
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Old 04-10-2021, 21:10   #2702
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Whilst Frost moans on about a deal he himself negotiated, Ireland and Northern Ireland seem to benefiting at GB's expense.

Republic of Ireland
Quote:
The value of exports in goods from Ireland to Great Britain increased by 20% during the first six months of 2021 compared to the first six months of 2020, while its exports to Northern Ireland increased even by 43%. Conversely, Great British exports to Ireland decreased by 32%

Food and live animals fall into that category: Exports from GB to the Republic declined by a staggering 50.42% and exports from Ireland to GB declined too, albeit only by 6.89% compared to the first six months of 2020.

Most sectors, however, show a win-lose pattern, i.e. Irish exports have increased while British exports have decreased. This is the case regarding products such as beverages and tobacco (Irish exports to GB increasing 22.43%, while British exports to the Republic of Ireland decreased by 31.82%).
Northern Ireland
Quote:
Contrary to Great Britain, Northern Ireland is currently one of the post-Brexit trade winners. The CSO’s figures show that Northern Irish exports to the republic increased by a staggering 78% between January and June 2021, compared to the same period in 2020.
https://encompass-europe.com/comment...rthern-ireland
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Old 04-10-2021, 21:31   #2703
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Whilst Frost moans on about a deal he himself negotiated, Ireland and Northern Ireland seem to benefiting at GB's expense.

Republic of Ireland


Northern Ireland

https://encompass-europe.com/comment...rthern-ireland
Quote:
Encompass is an online magazine delivering comment, opinion and analysis on the affairs of the European Union and Europeís place in the world. We aim to demystify the complexity of the EU and to be lively and provocative.
I havenít the inclination to fact check that article, or to research what itís leaving out as well as what itís putting in, but its stated editorial aims donít lead me to assume itís being even handed.
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Old 04-10-2021, 23:28   #2704
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Re: Britain outside the EU

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Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
You sound like idiot MP Chris Loader, he's delighted the supermarkets are struggling and the supply chains are falling apart because we'll all be able to visit the local farmer for our milk just like in the good old days, wonder if the inner city folk have occurred to him at all. You then have David Davis blaming businesses for not being better prepared, you couldn't make it up
Iím not delighted that supermarkets are struggling. I donít see the comparison.

---------- Post added at 23:28 ---------- Previous post was at 23:24 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Whilst Frost moans on about a deal he himself negotiated, Ireland and Northern Ireland seem to benefiting at GB's expense.

Republic of Ireland


Northern Ireland

https://encompass-europe.com/comment...rthern-ireland
Heís moaning about the EUís ridiculous interpretation of the deal, actually.
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Old 04-10-2021, 23:38   #2705
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
I havenít the inclination to fact check that article, or to research what itís leaving out as well as what itís putting in, but its stated editorial aims donít lead me to assume itís being even handed.
I can imagine you are devoting your fact-checking time to some of the more colourful claims coming out of Manchester.

---------- Post added at 23:38 ---------- Previous post was at 23:35 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Heís moaning about the EUís ridiculous interpretation of the deal, actually.
International treaties like that aren't open to interpretation.
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Old 05-10-2021, 00:18   #2706
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Whilst Frost moans on about a deal he himself negotiated, Ireland and Northern Ireland seem to benefiting at GB's expense.

Republic of Ireland


Northern Ireland

https://encompass-europe.com/comment...rthern-ireland
He got made a Lord on the strength of that deal, we'll have that back if the deals not good enough

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
I’m not delighted that supermarkets are struggling. I don’t see the comparison.
To be fair I don't think you are delighted to see them struggling, was just your comment about the farm shop, it reminded me what that idiot said the other day and how he's not been held to account for his moronic words, for the record I don't believe you want anything other than this to be a success, like most of us really for that matter
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Old 05-10-2021, 00:24   #2707
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Re: Britain outside the EU

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Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
He got made a Lord on the strength of that deal, we'll have that back if the deals not good enough
I wouldn't count on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
To be fair I don't think you are delighted to see them struggling, was just your comment about the farm shop, it reminded me what that idiot said the other day and how he's not been held to account for his moronic words, for the record I don't believe you want anything other than this to be a success, like most of us really for that matter
If it was anything close to a success, Johnson and his foot soldiers would be crowing about it. Anybody old enough to remember, "Yeah, but vaccines!"

Brexit has been downgraded from "sunny uplands" to "no difference in trade" to "understandable adjustments". I shudder to think what the next downgrade will be and genuinely hope there isn't one.
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Old 05-10-2021, 02:53   #2708
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Re: Britain outside the EU

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
I wouldn't count on it.


If it was anything close to a success, Johnson and his foot soldiers would be crowing about it. Anybody old enough to remember, "Yeah, but vaccines!"

Brexit has been downgraded from "sunny uplands" to "no difference in trade" to "understandable adjustments". I shudder to think what the next downgrade will be and genuinely hope there isn't one.
The vaccines delivered by the NHS, which they've also been keen to downgrade and we know what the next downgrade will be, David "thick as mince" Davis came out with it yesterday, it's businesses fault for not planning better, this is the man who bare in mind said it'd be business as usual the day after we left but now because it isn't business as usual instead of taking responsibility he's blaming businesses for not planning better
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Old 05-10-2021, 07:40   #2709
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Re: Britain outside the EU

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
International treaties like that aren't open to interpretation.
Everything is open to interpretation. The sandwich example mentioned earlier comes to mind. The EU choose to require details of the content of each sandwich individually labelled instead of a batch of like sandwiches. How mad is that?

Goods rejected because information was set out in the wrong colour ink - another example.

The devil, as they say, is in the detail.
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Old 05-10-2021, 07:50   #2710
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
The vaccines delivered by the NHS, which they've also been keen to downgrade and we know what the next downgrade will be, David "thick as mince" Davis came out with it yesterday, it's businesses fault for not planning better, this is the man who bare in mind said it'd be business as usual the day after we left but now because it isn't business as usual instead of taking responsibility he's blaming businesses for not planning better
Itís funny we know (and accept) capitalism relies on just in time trading but since 2016 private enterprise had to pre-empt the policies of 3 PMs, outcome of 2 GEs, all kinds of transitional arrangements and deals.

At some point - and Iím keen to hear the threshold from those who voted for Brexit - Government is responsible on some level for macroeconomic planning. As I think Hugh has said before we are all in this now regardless of how we voted in 2016.

The cynic in me might just think that for the politicians our economy is secondary to the needs of venture capitalists and tax dodgers. ďHard working familiesĒ donít help you dodge £300,000 stamp duty.
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Old 05-10-2021, 09:07   #2711
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Everything is open to interpretation. The sandwich example mentioned earlier comes to mind. The EU choose to require details of the content of each sandwich individually labelled instead of a batch of like sandwiches. How mad is that?

Goods rejected because information was set out in the wrong colour ink - another example.

The devil, as they say, is in the detail.
There's been no change in the way that rules for Third Countries are implemented. The way that such rules have been applied has been clear for all to see for years.

The only change has been that we've become a Third Country because of Brexit. Frost and Johnson knew the implications of what the UK signed up to.
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Old 05-10-2021, 10:33   #2712
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Re: Britain outside the EU

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
There's been no change in the way that rules for Third Countries are implemented. The way that such rules have been applied has been clear for all to see for years.

The only change has been that we've become a Third Country because of Brexit. Frost and Johnson knew the implications of what the UK signed up to.
You may pray for us to become a third world country, Andrew, but it's not going to happen. If you cannot understand that major change creates problems that then need to be fixed, I'm not sure where you've been all your life.

Putting this in a cable context, when we changed over from analogue to digital, there were major problems with stuttering, pixellation, etc in our area, and I reckon this could well have been a nationwide problem. It went on for months, and customers in my area were asking to go back to analogue, it was so bad.

But the problems got fixed, and look where we are now. It's the same with Brexit. We have problems arising from the change, they will get fixed, and we won't be looking back. You must see that this is not a permanent set of problems, surely!

---------- Post added at 10:33 ---------- Previous post was at 10:29 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Itís funny we know (and accept) capitalism relies on just in time trading but since 2016 private enterprise had to pre-empt the policies of 3 PMs, outcome of 2 GEs, all kinds of transitional arrangements and deals.

At some point - and Iím keen to hear the threshold from those who voted for Brexit - Government is responsible on some level for macroeconomic planning. As I think Hugh has said before we are all in this now regardless of how we voted in 2016.

The cynic in me might just think that for the politicians our economy is secondary to the needs of venture capitalists and tax dodgers. ďHard working familiesĒ donít help you dodge £300,000 stamp duty.
To be honest, it could have been better planned, but the disruption caused by the remoaners was such that this was practically imposible. And then, of course, the pandemic hit.

With more time, we could have done so much better, but in the circumstances, the time was simply not there.
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Old 05-10-2021, 10:35   #2713
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
You may pray for us to become a third world country, Andrew, but it's not going to happen. If you cannot understand that major change creates problems that then need to be fixed, I'm not sure where you've been all your life.

Putting this in a cable context, when we changed over from analogue to digital, there were major problems with stuttering, pixellation, etc in our area, and I reckon this could well have been a nationwide problem. It went on for months, and customers in my area were asking to go back to analogue, it was so bad.

But the problems got fixed, and look where we are now. It's the same with Brexit. We have problems arising from the change, they will get fixed, and we won't be looking back. You must see that this is not a permanent set of problems, surely!
None of this waffle actually tries to remotely address the points I've made.
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Old 05-10-2021, 10:50   #2714
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Re: Britain outside the EU

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
To be honest, it could have been better planned, but the disruption caused by the remoaners was such that this was practically imposible. And then, of course, the pandemic hit.
There’s no but. It absolutely could have been better planned. The opposition parties don’t control the Civil Service. Nor do they control the timescale.

Quote:
With more time, we could have done so much better, but in the circumstances, the time was simply not there.
Absolutely we could have done better with more time. But these were active political choices to trigger Article 50 (with no plan) and reject an extension to the transitional period. As you say - the pandemic hit - but an active political choice was made to not use that as reasonable justification for an extension to use that time to plan better. That wasn’t a “remoaner” choice.

So I ask again at what point do you accept the Government are accountable? Five years? Ten? Twenty? Fifty?

You’ve also confused a third country with a third world country in your response to Andrew.
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Old 05-10-2021, 10:54   #2715
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Re: Britain outside the EU

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
None of this waffle actually tries to remotely address the points I've made.
I simply don't agree with your points, Andrew. There are those who go around thinking the end of the world is nigh, and others who have a more positive attitude.

And of course, there's the left wing opposition that just wants to rubbish everything the other side do. There's a clue there as to why Labour is still out of office despite the government's unpopular efforts to deal with the recession (the severity of which was caused by Labour). The Conservatives remain in office and popular because in the end, the majority of people see that the government is heading in the right direction, and actually do listen to the public.

The electorate voted for Brexit, it was implemented (with a faulty deal brought about by remoaners), there are implementation problems and they will be fixed.
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