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Old 26-02-2019, 13:35   #7861
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythica View Post
So many don't seem to get that because it's a stupid thing to do. You don't leave a job and then decide to go look for another.
Nowhere near the same sort of situation.


Imagine a situation where a trade union threatened a strike. The Employer wouldn't take negotiations seriously unless they were prepared to go on strike, and if that failed, actually went on strike. Both sides suffer.
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Old 26-02-2019, 13:39   #7862
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Re: Brexit

May making a statement right now on the BBC News channel & BBC2.
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Old 26-02-2019, 13:56   #7863
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Theresa May makes three commitments:

1. "We will hold a second meaningful vote by Tuesday 12 March at the latest."
2. "If the government has not won a meaningful vote by Tuesday 12 March, then it will...table a motion to be voted on by Wednesday 13 March asking this House if it supports leaving the EU without a withdrawal agreement...."The UK will only leave without a deal on 29 March if there is explicit consent in the House for that outcome."
3. If MPs reject a no-deal Brexit, "The government will, on 14 March, bring forward a motion on whether Parliament wants to seek a short, limited extension to Article 50."

If MPs vote for this, May says, she will seek an extension from the EU. She does not want to see this happen, she adds, saying "our absolute focus" should be on approving a deal before 29 March.

She says an extension to Article 50 would not take no-deal off the table.
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Old 26-02-2019, 13:59   #7864
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
Nowhere near the same sort of situation.


Imagine a situation where a trade union threatened a strike. The Employer wouldn't take negotiations seriously unless they were prepared to go on strike, and if that failed, actually went on strike. Both sides suffer.
It's exactly the same situation. You don't decide to do something and after doing it then decide what to do next.
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Old 26-02-2019, 14:02   #7865
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter View Post
I've personally seen them defecating outdoors in public areas.

The main point of my post is that this free movement crap is allowing these low life's into our country. Playing with data is meaningless if it's you that's been pickpocketed etc. Even one is one too many.

So what? go into any major city on a Friday or Saturday night and you'll see people exhibiting exactly the same sort of behavior so once again your point is moot. The same 'freedom of movement crap' as you so eloquently phrase it is what allows British ex pats to live overseas and work British workers to work overseas.

Finally, if you're the one whose been pickpocketed then of course it's going to change your view point as it's a personal & emotional. But, as with most things it needs to be examined as a whole and subjectively.

You're just repeating and insinuating your same old tired bigoted nonsense as per usual
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Old 26-02-2019, 14:17   #7866
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Re: Brexit

Looks like the tin may be kicked down the road. If Theresa May gets an extension, what happens when that expires and she has no new concessions from the EU? That's when it starts to get really interesting.

---------- Post added at 13:17 ---------- Previous post was at 13:15 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
Ah, the old "Gove” approach...

Do you honestly believe that none of the WTO countries would object?
I would be interested to read Nomad's response to this point.
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Old 26-02-2019, 14:40   #7867
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Re: Brexit

This probably means article 50 will be delayed right? May's deal doesn't have a majority so unless the ERG decide to vote for it to avoid a delay, there isn't a majority for no deal and so delaying it will win?
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Old 26-02-2019, 14:49   #7868
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien View Post
This probably means article 50 will be delayed right? May's deal doesn't have a majority so unless the ERG decide to vote for it to avoid a delay, there isn't a majority for no deal and so delaying it will win?
That's the way i see it too, unless of course May has managed to achieve the changes/assurances required to get her deal through parliament (Highly unlikely, but there's a very slim degree of possibility) MP's then get stuck with either voting their conscience or voting their constituents requests.

Article 50 is extended, May quits and the issue is kicked down the road again for the next Tory leader to try and resolve.
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Old 26-02-2019, 15:16   #7869
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
Nowhere near the same sort of situation.


Imagine a situation where a trade union threatened a strike. The Employer wouldn't take negotiations seriously unless they were prepared to go on strike, and if that failed, actually went on strike. Both sides suffer.
Another bad analogy. If you strike, you still have a job to go back to after the strike.

A better version would be if you resigned from your job with no redundancy payments and the challenge of finding similarly rewarding employment at short notice.

---------- Post added at 14:16 ---------- Previous post was at 14:08 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter View Post
Just watched a programme from Channel 5, it said that cash point machine theft/fraud has trebled and 90% of it is being done by Romanians. They interviewed them and was told that it is either used for drugs or to send home to their poor families back home.

It was on the news the other day that many of them live outdoors too.

The ugly side of free movement in action. What on Earth did they expect when they allowed these poorer countries to join?
You need to challenge what you watch more.

https://fullfact.org/europe/over-her...-90-atm-crime/

Quote:
The claim that 90% of crime at ATMs (or cash machines) is the work of Romanian gangs has often been repeated in the press as far back as early 2012 (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-30m-year.html).

Conclusion

While both parts of the Express's claim on the prevalance of Romanian crime in the UK have some evidence underpinning them, both need to be carefully understood. A former head of the police unit tasked with tackling ATM crime has indeed estimated that 92% of fraud at cash machines is committed by Romanian nationals (although the Express also threw Bulgarian nationals into the mix), we don't know the basis for this assertion, nor whether or not it still applies.

Similarly, almost 28,000 Romanians have been arrested in the past five years according to Metropolitan Police figures, but only a small fraction of these were on suspicion of "serious" offences.
Until there is some objective, verifiable evidence to support this, this is just hearsay and conjecture click-bait.
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Last edited by ianch99; 26-02-2019 at 17:06.
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Old 26-02-2019, 16:27   #7870
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythica View Post
It's exactly the same situation. You don't decide to do something and after doing it then decide what to do next.
I seem to remember the official leave campaign leaflet saying they'd sort the deal out before w asked to leave, which makes more sense to me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien View Post
This probably means article 50 will be delayed right? May's deal doesn't have a majority so unless the ERG decide to vote for it to avoid a delay, there isn't a majority for no deal and so delaying it will win?
I think Mrs May will get her deal through now...
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Old 26-02-2019, 17:08   #7871
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
I think Mrs May will get her deal through now...
Why though? The pressure is off now since the idea of crashing out with no deal can be postponed for three months. The only scenario I can see is that the ERG sense that this is the best they can get since something else might happen in those three months but they don't seem to be thinking like that at the moment....
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Old 26-02-2019, 17:43   #7872
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
What's the point of a 2nd referendum? The pound in your pocket is worth 15% less than it was pre 1st referendum, 800 billion has left the city of London, 10% of London's hotel room bookings have been lost, 250 companies have relocated to Europe, it's cost us 800 million a week since the referendum etc etc etc and for what to end up staying in, seems crazy to me and imo uneducated as it is we're probably over the worst of it anyway, if they're foolish enough to give me a 2nd vote it'll be leave next time
Pound rises against the Dollar & the Euro as chances of remaining in the EU increase. Although I suspect it has more to do with No Deal being less likely.
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Old 26-02-2019, 18:32   #7873
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien View Post
Why though? The pressure is off now since the idea of crashing out with no deal can be postponed for three months. The only scenario I can see is that the ERG sense that this is the best they can get since something else might happen in those three months but they don't seem to be thinking like that at the moment....
I think there’s no doubt this is about threatening the ERG. They’re holding out for No Deal but as they do so they risk No Brexit. There’s little chance of a second referendum being called by Parliament this month, but in two or three months, if negotiations are still at an impasse? Who knows what might happen then?

I think we’re about to get a legally binding addendum to the withdrawal agreement (so that the agreement itself has not been re-opened, as per EU insistence) which will be put to Parliament as Meaningful Vote #2. And all hell will be let loose on the Tory back benches as No.10 tries to get it voted through.
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Old 26-02-2019, 18:56   #7874
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees View Post
So what? go into any major city on a Friday or Saturday night and you'll see people exhibiting exactly the same sort of behavior so once again your point is moot. The same 'freedom of movement crap' as you so eloquently phrase it is what allows British ex pats to live overseas and work British workers to work overseas.

Finally, if you're the one whose been pickpocketed then of course it's going to change your view point as it's a personal & emotional. But, as with most things it needs to be examined as a whole and subjectively.

You're just repeating and insinuating your same old tired bigoted nonsense as per usual
I actually think it's worse when immigrants do it as opposed to our own, it's more of an affront.

Freedom of movement is wrong. No country should have to allow foreigners into their country and have no say in it, allsorts of lowlifes are coming in (especially in London).

As previously stated, those who go to live in Spain usually have to pay health costs, usually buy their own property, don't need employment, won't need maternity/education services etc etc. It's a totally different area, however, Spain would be within their right to ask them to leave. I bet they won't though.

If a country decides that they want to allow immigrants in (presumably they will control the quality & quantity of them), then that's a completely different thing altogether.

Those who voted to remain have this issue above all else to blame for the vote not going their way.

Trying to silence people by playing the bigot/racist card no longer works.

---------- Post added at 17:56 ---------- Previous post was at 17:49 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 View Post
Another bad analogy. If you strike, you still have a job to go back to after the strike.

A better version would be if you resigned from your job with no redundancy payments and the challenge of finding similarly rewarding employment at short notice.

---------- Post added at 14:16 ---------- Previous post was at 14:08 ----------



You need to challenge what you watch more.

https://fullfact.org/europe/over-her...-90-atm-crime/



Until there is some objective, verifiable evidence to support this, this is just hearsay and conjecture click-bait.
An interesting and better thought out post than simply playing the bigot card- thank you.

Whether the figures are correct or not, ending free movement would hopefully allow us to rid ourselves of people who commit crime (serious or otherwise), we have enough of our own! It also impacts on police resources as they have to pay for translators as well as the extra time involved.

Last edited by RichardCoulter; 26-02-2019 at 19:00.
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Old 26-02-2019, 18:57   #7875
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Re: Brexit

Disagreeing with, and pointing out errors in what someone says is not playing the bigot/racist card - saying that is a pre-emptive straw man argument.

You strongly object to people making unsubstantiated generalisations about disabled people, but seem happy to do so against immigrants - double standards in play.
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