Brexit (Old)

[Chloé Palmas]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Meanwhile, a Sky survey has some bad news for Theresa May with just 10% of the British public thinking the Government is doing a good job on Brexit.

In honor of McCain they must be paid staffers and family members who think that she / the government is doing a good job.

Heck even half the government don't seem to think so, most of them seem to be resigning and briefing against the plan.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Chloé Palmas

Lipstick on a pig has been used more by US conservatives as of late, in regards to referring to government spending / waste etc. In fact, looking back at who commonly uses the phrase in the last decade, it has been the likes of Sarah Palin, Don Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney etc. It is used a lot more by the right, to ridicule the left.

"Lipstick on a pig" and "polish a turd" more aptly belong in the Corbyn thread!

[Chloé Palmas]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The Chequers Plan has, in fact, been approved by Parliament.

Ummm...what?

The EU knows that Theresa May has very little wriggle room, so if it tries to push back too far, a no-deal situation will be with us.

Which won't pass parliament....the EU know that with May around, they have nothing to worry about. If she falls and the next Tory leader calls a GE then yes, it might pass (a no deal vote) with a larger commons majority.

Either scenario is OK by me.

Yes but neither is okay with a majority of MPs (even though you seem to think that one already is) and not only was the Chequers plan not okay with the EU, neither was anything else that she has proposed.

So yes, either scenario is fine with you but not with anyone else.

[Chloé Palmas]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I should also remind you that we don't need trade deals in order to trade.

True and if you don't have the trade deal to the extent of an FTA you end up with things like you know...tariffs and barriers.

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

That point does seem to pass the stallwart remainers by.

It has done nothing of the sort. How could it with the likes of OB (and everyone else who lives in an alternate reality) constantly drumming up the issue of trade being as "friction-less" as possible.

As much as you wish to lump the issue of trade being a possibility (with an FTA) as something that is "lost" on the remainers, (your words), it is the leave side that is constantly drumming up the issue of "future relations", as if a future trade deal is the be all and end all of everything.

Do not try and pin this on folks who voted remain...

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Chloé Palmas

Ummm...what?

I can only assume that Old Boy meant Cabinet not Parliament. Though the subsequent resignations weakened the approval.

[Chloé Palmas]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

So defeatist! I’m glad you aren’t in charge of our negotiations!

Yes, but who is?

Does he or she even know that they are in charge at this point?

[Chloé Palmas]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

If you can argue with that, your credibility is shot.

What credibility? Kim Jong Un's propaganda minister has more credibility than him...

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Unfortunately, if it goes adversely, it affects everyone in the UK - shadenfruede doesn't work if you are also affected negatively...

Problem has always been the extremes vs the middle.
The extreme at one end seem to want those who voted to remain to be gracious in defeat, yet forget this was over 48% of the vote and seemingly take great pleasure in rubbing their noses in their win.

There will be no good outcome from leaving. Will either be too extreme for most or too wishy washy for a few. The majority will not be happy regardless.

The 48% vs. 52%, is still a loss in a binary vote.

WHY is this topic still looking/going backwards and discussing the merits of leaving/remaining.?

A Referendum took place, one answer was Democratically decided. Nobody is asking any body to be gracious. I couldn’t care less if Remainers accept the result or not, but what I do not stand for is the derogatory insults that “some” Remainers levy at Brexiteers, for simply choosing a decision they believe in.

I want to leave the Corrupt EU. I don’t want to be in a group that is so economically unbalanced. Remainers think everything is so rosy in this bloc. Wrong, just look at the youth unemployment in the other Member States.

We do not need to pay a hefty membership fee, 1 of 10, of 28 who pay in far more than they get out, to be a trading partner with European countries.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Mick

The 48% vs. 52%, is still a loss in a binary vote.

WHY is this topic still looking/going backwards and discussing the merits of leaving/remaining.?

A Referendum took place, one answer was Democratically decided. Nobody is asking any body to be gracious. I couldn’t care less if Remainers accept the result or not, but what I do not stand for is the derogatory insults that “some” Remainers levy at Brexiteers, for simply choosing a decision they believe in.

I want to leave the Corrupt EU. I don’t want to be in a group that is so economically unbalanced. Remainers think everything is so rosy in this bloc. Wrong, just look at the youth unemployment in the other Member States.

We do not need to pay a hefty membership fee, 1 of 10, of 28 who pay in far more than they get out, to be a trading partner with European countries.

I accept we are leaving. Voted leave myself.

The problem is and and always has been, what that means for the individual voter.

Some voted leave with a hard brexit in mind.
Others voted leave but hoped to stay in the customs union.
Some voted leave just to give the government the message to listen.

Whichever way you look at this, The government are still not listening and the majority will not be happy no matter the results of the negotiation.

You only have to look at the result of the last election to see how at odds the country is.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Angua

I accept we are leaving. Voted leave myself.

The problem is and and always has been, what that means for the individual voter.

Some voted leave with a hard brexit in mind.
Others voted leave but hoped to stay in the customs union.
Some voted leave just to give the government the message to listen.

Whichever way you look at this, The government are still not listening and the majority will not be happy no matter the results of the negotiation.

You only have to look at the result of the last election to see how at odds the country is.

some read the leaflet posted through the door explaining exactly what brexit was.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

some read the leaflet posted through the door explaining exactly what brexit was.

Whist others believed messages on the side of buses.

Assuming everyone has the same understanding of Brexit is where it goes wrong.

[Chloé Palmas]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I read in a newspaper analysis today(I forget which) something that absolutely chimed with me. It was in relation to the EU breaking Article 8 (and indeed Article 50) by not negotiating with us to bring about a decent agreement.

The article highlighted the difference between the UK which has a flexible unwritten constitution and the rest of the EU that are rules based in their Treaty documents and thus totally inflexible. Aka we look alike but don't think alike.

See this is the biggest reason that a future prediction on what happens in March is so difficult. If there is no parliamentary majority for a no deal exit, then what? There is nothing set in stone.

Chris and Damien sometimes talk about the Parliamentary flexibility that we have and if they can understand it, all the more to them.

The rigidity of the EU's principles and or something like the US constitution set into stone what would happen in an event like this. With the UK, it is anyone's guess.

There isn't going to be a deal, that is a given. (Old Boy enter here to dispute that).

If there is no deal, I don't see that ever passing parliament. (Not even close).

I have a feeling that the reason that May keeps saying that she will lead the Tories into the next GE is because she suspects that it will be in 2019 when her government falls due to failure of getting the exit bill through either chamber.

[pip08456]

What makes you think parliament gets to vote on no deal?

[heero_yuy]

Exactly. Parliament gets to vote ONLY on May's deal IF there is one. Otherwise the default position is WTO rules next march. That default position WAS voted through by parliament.