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Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
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Old 28-11-2019, 09:46   #1156
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Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

Old Boy shifting the goalposts again. We will have linear television after all, just perhaps not over Digital Terrestrial, and maybe not 2030 as mentioned in a seven year old speculative OFCOM document.
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Old 28-11-2019, 13:49   #1157
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Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

Pretty much as some of us have been saying all along ... any TV that is broadcast to a schedule is linear, regardless of whether it’s made available by terrestrial, satellite, cable or over IP.

The nature of some forms of TV, such as live sport and rolling news, is such that there will always, always be linear TV. The fact that even on streaming platforms, some big-ticket items are released according to a weekly schedule shows that even the streamers understand there is a role for controlled release of new entertainment content.
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Old 28-11-2019, 17:08   #1158
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Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Old Boy shifting the goalposts again. We will have linear television after all, just perhaps not over Digital Terrestrial, and maybe not 2030 as mentioned in a seven year old speculative OFCOM document.
No goalposts have been moved, I've been saying the same thing for years now.

It is patently absurd to say there will be no live TV because news and sport is always live. What I have been saying all this time is that scheduled TV channels will most likely have closed down by 2035 and these will be replaced by video on demand and streaming.

A different method of broadcasting, yes, but also a very different experience for the viewer.

---------- Post added at 16:08 ---------- Previous post was at 16:05 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
Pretty much as some of us have been saying all along ... any TV that is broadcast to a schedule is linear, regardless of whether its made available by terrestrial, satellite, cable or over IP.

The nature of some forms of TV, such as live sport and rolling news, is such that there will always, always be linear TV. The fact that even on streaming platforms, some big-ticket items are released according to a weekly schedule shows that even the streamers understand there is a role for controlled release of new entertainment content.
I do not disagree with any of that. But the scheduled TV channels as we know them now almost certainly will not exist with IPTV. That is all I am saying.
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Old 28-11-2019, 21:27   #1159
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Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

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No goalposts have been moved, I've been saying the same thing for years now.

It is patently absurd to say there will be no live TV because news and sport is always live. What I have been saying all this time is that scheduled TV channels will most likely have closed down by 2035 and these will be replaced by video on demand and streaming.

A different method of broadcasting, yes, but also a very different experience for the viewer.
Ach, just the usual from him mate, arguing for argument's sake.
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Old 28-11-2019, 23:41   #1160
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Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
I do not disagree with any of that. But the scheduled TV channels as we know them now almost certainly will not exist with IPTV. That is all I am saying.
Hello Old Boy,

My opinion on this remains the same as I've said before and as people choose streaming services over traditional pay tv, many linear channels will close.

However, in many regards, I see tv of tomorrow looking very much as it did thirty years ago with there remaining a core group of linear channels acting as shop windows into their respective streaming services.

Until true intelligent tv comes along (some way off) many people do not want to wade through endless menus or have to "think" about what they want to watch after a long day and a core group of linear channels which are broad in nature, as our main channels used to be, with a varied selection of programming, will dominate I believe. Having wall-to-wall reality crap and celebrity chefs will become a thing of the past as those channels with poor quality content close.

Don't be surprised within five years to find a Netflix One channel, (perhaps a Netflix Kids channel, or Netflix Crime channel etc) which shows the best of what's on offer on Netflix's streaming service. And if people want to break away from the linear schedule and binge watch a certain show, rather than waiting for the next episode to appear in the linear schedule, they've only got to enter the streaming service to do it. Ie Press the red button to binge watch the whole season of a show you're currently watching.

Who runs these linear channels in the future though, I think is very much up for debate and all depends on which streaming services survive over the next ten years or so. I believe Disney and Netflix will survive, not sure on the others yet and I believe ultimately our own UK broadcasters may well collapse.
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Old 29-11-2019, 12:20   #1161
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Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

All these doubters about linear getting reduced think of this with 5g more bandwidth needs to be found and say 10 years down the line we could have 6G which would require even more bandwidth putting more squeeze on the freeview transmitions at least.
So i don't think OBs theories are as wild as some think.
What i think will happen is we will see linear tv delivered more and more via our broadband using multicast.
The reality is technology is moving very fast, in 1998 we only had wap now we have 5G that's quite a huge jump in 20 years so i wouldn't pah pah OBs theories.
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Old 29-11-2019, 13:13   #1162
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Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

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Originally Posted by Mad Max View Post
Ach, just the usual from him mate, arguing for argument's sake.
Its hardly arguing for the sake of argument. Old Boy has, once again, made a material change to his ongoing argument

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...postcount=5884

This post, and those around it, he was clearly talking about television working to a schedule. Not digital terrestrial/cable or satellite.

---------- Post added at 12:13 ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 ----------

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Originally Posted by Legendkiller2k View Post
All these doubters about linear getting reduced think of this with 5g more bandwidth needs to be found and say 10 years down the line we could have 6G which would require even more bandwidth putting more squeeze on the freeview transmitions at least.
So i don't think OBs theories are as wild as some think.
What i think will happen is we will see linear tv delivered more and more via our broadband using multicast.
The reality is technology is moving very fast, in 1998 we only had wap now we have 5G that's quite a huge jump in 20 years so i wouldn't pah pah OBs theories.
If hes making the case that linear TV will exist but not over Digital Terrestrial then fair enough, its not that bold an argument as cable/satellite and IPTV are superior technologies in any case.

Is the DTT space even desirable for 5G? I thought much higher frequencies were being utilised to deliver the required bandwidth.
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Old 29-11-2019, 14:16   #1163
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Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Its hardly arguing for the sake of argument. Old Boy has, once again, made a material change to his ongoing argument

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...postcount=5884

This post, and those around it, he was clearly talking about television working to a schedule. Not digital terrestrial/cable or satellite.

---------- Post added at 12:13 ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 ----------



If hes making the case that linear TV will exist but not over Digital Terrestrial then fair enough, its not that bold an argument as cable/satellite and IPTV are superior technologies in any case.

Is the DTT space even desirable for 5G? I thought much higher frequencies were being utilised to deliver the required bandwidth.
At last, the penny seems to have dropped!

Yes, my argument is that existing scheduled TV will ultimately be replaced by video on demand and streaming. I thought page 1 of this thread made this clear, but evidently not, as it seems to have taken a few years for this to sink in.

I accept part of the blame for initially using the term 'linear', but at the time, all the press articles I was coming across referred to our existing channels thus. Then, having (I thought) clarified the position, there was much pedantry going on revolving around terminology and other nonsense.

Finally, maybe there is at last an element of agreement about the thrust of the argument presented in this thread, even though some may still be of the view that existing channels will continue much as they are now. For that, we must wait and see, but I believe that the broadcasters will adapt to new technology by the time IPTV takes off and replaces existing transmissions. I would not be at all surprised if at that point, if not before, Sky will cease to broadcast via satellite, thereby reducing costs.
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Old 29-11-2019, 14:27   #1164
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Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
At last, the penny seems to have dropped!

Yes, my argument is that existing scheduled TV will ultimately be replaced by video on demand and streaming. I thought page 1 of this thread made this clear, but evidently not, as it seems to have taken a few years for this to sink in.

I accept part of the blame for initially using the term 'linear', but at the time, all the press articles I was coming across referred to our existing channels thus. Then, having (I thought) clarified the position, there was much pedantry going on revolving around terminology and other nonsense.

Finally, maybe there is at last an element of agreement about the thrust of the argument presented in this thread, even though some may still be of the view that existing channels will continue much as they are now. For that, we must wait and see, but I believe that the broadcasters will adapt to new technology by the time IPTV takes off and replaces existing transmissions. I would not be at all surprised if at that point, if not before, Sky will cease to broadcast via satellite, thereby reducing costs.
No matter how much effort you make to sugar coat your climbdown on this issue - there are countless posts where you describe viewers not watching linear TV and therefore the advertising revenue wouldn’t support it.

It’s hardly pedantry to pin you down on your use of terminology given your track record in moving the goalposts.

The only think that has “sunk in” is your own realisation that people will continue to watch linear television, no matter how backward you believe it to be.

Indeed, let’s revisit the opening post:

Quote:
Well, that's what Virgin Media seem to think, and this interesting piece suggests that our cableco at least is set to move on from the traditional scheduled TV means of providing content.

This rather suggests that the days of more and more digital channels being added to VM may be coming to an end, in favour of a bigger and more comprehensive on demand selection from multiple sources.
Digital terrestrial had nothing to do with it.

This thread from 2015 seems equally to be clearly talking about scheduled linear television as a whole.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...php?t=33699901

Last edited by jfman; 29-11-2019 at 14:38.
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Old 29-11-2019, 14:37   #1165
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Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
No matter how much effort you make to sugar coat your climbdown on this issue - there are countless posts where you describe viewers not watching linear TV and therefore the advertising revenue wouldn’t support it.

It’s hardly pedantry to pin you down on your use of terminology given your track record in moving the goalposts.

The only think that has “sunk in” is your own realisation that people will continue to watch linear television, no matter how backward you believe it to be.

Indeed, let’s revisit the opening post:



Digital terrestrial had nothing to do with it.
I didn't say it did. I was merely pointing out the obvious, the all these scheduled channels that we have now will die off in favour of on demand and streaming. If you read my last post, I admitted that my use of the word 'linear' was not the best word to use, even though it was used that way in common parlence at the time.

I'm not sure what goalposts you think I've moved. Maybe it's just your understanding of what I said on the first page of this thread.

Even David Bouchier used the term linear, to demonstrate the point.

“We are talking about moving away from simple linear TV and that [old] multichannel line-up,” he said. “Linear is the old technology and…not a valid pay TV proposition on its own.”

Last edited by OLD BOY; 29-11-2019 at 14:40.
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Old 29-11-2019, 14:41   #1166
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Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
I didn't say it did. I was merely pointing out the obvious, the all these scheduled channels that we have now will die off in favour of on demand and streaming. If you read my last post, I admitted that my use of the word 'linear' was not the best word to use, even though it was used that way in common parlence at the time.

I'm not sure what goalposts you think I've moved. Maybe it's just your understanding of what I said on the first page of this thread.
Now were back to no linear television. Make your mind up...
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Old 29-11-2019, 14:48   #1167
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Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

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Now we’re back to no linear television. Make your mind up...
What I said was that instead of live TV channels as they are now, they would be streamed instead. Stop being so argumentative. You know perfectly well what I'm saying.

Since you responded, I added David Bouchier's quote about 'linear' TV in my earlier post to underline the point that most people were using this terminology to describe existing TV channels and their demise in the future.

So channels such as BBC1,2,3 and 4 will all be found only in one place in the future - the BBC i-Player or its successor, and if the licence fee is abolished, maybe Britbox. There will simply be no point in having those separate channels, content will be listed by title/categories.

They will all be on demand except live events such as news and sport, which will be streamed.

Is that clear enough for you?
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Old 29-11-2019, 14:49   #1168
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Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

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Now were back to no linear television. Make your mind up...
Its what you call a hotchpotch of obfuscation and confusement.
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Old 29-11-2019, 14:53   #1169
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Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
What I said was that instead of live TV channels as they are now, they would be streamed instead. Stop being so argumentative. You know perfectly well what I'm saying.

Since you responded, I added David Bouchier's quote about 'linear' TV in my earlier post to underline the point that most people were using this terminology to describe existing TV channels and their demise in the future.

So channels such as BBC1,2,3 and 4 will all be found only in one place in the future - the BBC i-Player or its successor, and if the licence fee is abolished, maybe Britbox. There will simply be no point in having those separate channels, content will be listed by title/categories.

They will all be on demand except live events such as news and sport, which will be streamed.

Is that clear enough for you?
Fair enough, were back to the same lines that have been consistently debunked over the last five years. No real need to revisit your tired old arguments.

---------- Post added at 13:53 ---------- Previous post was at 13:53 ----------

Quote:
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Its what you call a hotchpotch of obfuscation and confusement.
Almost thought we had a breakthrough of common sense on Old Boys part but sadly not.
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Old 30-11-2019, 10:49   #1170
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Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future

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Fair enough, were back to the same lines that have been consistently debunked over the last five years. No real need to revisit your tired old arguments.

---------- Post added at 13:53 ---------- Previous post was at 13:53 ----------



Almost thought we had a breakthrough of common sense on Old Boys part but sadly not.
I think most reading these forums will appreciate what I am saying, whether or not they agree. You are deliberately misunderstanding and causing unnecessary confusion. But you do this with practically everything you post
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