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Millions to be affected by NHS plan to ration 34 everyday tests and treatments
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Old 02-12-2019, 20:52   #31
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Re: Millions to be affected by NHS plan to ration 34 everyday tests and treatments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K View Post
Thing is, BoJo and millionaire inherited wealth chums can just buy their healthcare. The NHS is for the plebs as far as they are concerned. As Dominic Cummings admitted Tory MPs don't give a toss for the NHS or the poor.
And no long waiting list for them either...
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Old 03-12-2019, 00:02   #32
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Re: Millions to be affected by NHS plan to ration 34 everyday tests and treatments

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
It's pretty arrogant of you to suggest that people don't understand the issues. You are assuming that most of the electorate are a bunch of retards who can't make sensible decisions on what they want.

What is very clear is that most people do want tax cuts. They also want good quality services, and they expect the government to provide these efficiently. It is the latter that is causing the problems - too much bureaucracy and outdated, inefficient systems.

The fact that this seems to come as a surprise to you is telling.

---------- Post added at 18:13 ---------- Previous post was at 18:08 ----------



I think it is perfectly reasonable for our electorate to demand efficiency before pushing ever increased shedloads of money into an expanding black hole.

---------- Post added at 18:15 ---------- Previous post was at 18:13 ----------



We are paying an absolute fortune into the NHS but service levels keep going down. Strange, that.

---------- Post added at 18:16 ---------- Previous post was at 18:15 ----------



Pity the last Labour government didn't note that, jfman.
Instead the Tories will cut council funding, forcing councils to raise council tax.

People want to pay less for things they have to buy. This is where tax cuts are needed. Income tax is money people don't see in the first place, so raising it by just 1p will make very little difference to the pay packet. Council tax going up to pay for the Police and Social services is a far more visible rise.

Raising VAT also means people buy less.

The NHS is being underfunded, particularly as it is used as a dumping ground for elderly patients the Council care system cannot afford. If people want to keep the NHS they WILL have to pay more for it.

False accounting on claiming 50,000 New nurses is one proven lie. 40 new hospitals is another. Where is the money coming from for these claims? If they are not genuinely achievable in the first place, the cost is correspondingly negligible.
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Old 03-12-2019, 08:45   #33
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Re: Millions to be affected by NHS plan to ration 34 everyday tests and treatments

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Originally Posted by Angua View Post
Instead the Tories will cut council funding, forcing councils to raise council tax.

People want to pay less for things they have to buy. This is where tax cuts are needed. Income tax is money people don't see in the first place, so raising it by just 1p will make very little difference to the pay packet. Council tax going up to pay for the Police and Social services is a far more visible rise.

Raising VAT also means people buy less.


The NHS is being underfunded, particularly as it is used as a dumping ground for elderly patients the Council care system cannot afford. If people want to keep the NHS they WILL have to pay more for it.

False accounting on claiming 50,000 New nurses is one proven lie. 40 new hospitals is another. Where is the money coming from for these claims? If they are not genuinely achievable in the first place, the cost is correspondingly negligible.
Clearly, you are not one of the 'many' who are struggling to pay their bills.

You cannot just ignore the fact that the NHS is woefully inefficient. Pouring shedloads of money into it for a worsenening service is not the answer.

Most people would agree that the NHS needs sufficient resources to enable it to run properly and provide a good service to its patients, but increased resources need to be conditional on increased efficiency.
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:05   #34
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Re: Millions to be affected by NHS plan to ration 34 everyday tests and treatments

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Clearly, you are not one of the 'many' who are struggling to pay their bills.

You cannot just ignore the fact that the NHS is woefully inefficient. Pouring shedloads of money into it for a worsenening service is not the answer.

Most people would agree that the NHS needs sufficient resources to enable it to run properly and provide a good service to its patients, but increased resources need to be conditional on increased efficiency.
I don't think anyone is disagreeing with the latter..It's a given in any part of any publicly funded and publicly run organisation.
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:30   #35
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Re: Millions to be affected by NHS plan to ration 34 everyday tests and treatments

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Clearly, you are not one of the 'many' who are struggling to pay their bills.

You cannot just ignore the fact that the NHS is woefully inefficient. Pouring shedloads of money into it for a worsenening service is not the answer.

Most people would agree that the NHS needs sufficient resources to enable it to run properly and provide a good service to its patients, but increased resources need to be conditional on increased efficiency.
You may find this of interest.

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publica...ue-nhs/summary

However, bear in mind the old Business Improvement mantra - "it’s hard to drain the swamp whilst you’re fighting off the alligators"; people expect the same people to undertake improvement work at the same time they are snowed under with their day job...
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Old 03-12-2019, 12:24   #36
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Re: Millions to be affected by NHS plan to ration 34 everyday tests and treatments

All too true, we are expecting the hard working front line and technical staff to be more efficient and employ efficiency experts (consultants) usually at high wages to tell them how and make them fill out forms to prove how efficient they are and expect them to get more done in the reduced time they have left.

It's not helped though by the public (some of them) who abuse the system. Don't turn up for appointments, don't follow instructions and so on, let alone those trying to get support they aren't entitled to. If people used the system properly maybe the rules could be more simple and not need loads of investigations into abuse.
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Old 03-12-2019, 18:28   #37
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Re: Millions to be affected by NHS plan to ration 34 everyday tests and treatments

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Clearly, you are not one of the 'many' who are struggling to pay their bills.

You cannot just ignore the fact that the NHS is woefully inefficient. Pouring shedloads of money into it for a worsenening service is not the answer.

Most people would agree that the NHS needs sufficient resources to enable it to run properly and provide a good service to its patients, but increased resources need to be conditional on increased efficiency.
We live on my income and Mr A's small pension. We could claim benefits, but don't. We really are at the lower end of the tax paying spectrum, but live frugally and limit our outgoings. We don't even claim the married persons tax allowance as Mr A despairs of getting sense out of the government as they ask for P60 income and he has none.

The NHS is severely understaffed, this has a HUGE effect on costs. Nothing to do with efficiencies, you cannot get more out of a system that does not have the human resources to do the job in the first place. All you can do is hope the winter crisis is small and short lived, as there is no capacity for worse.

Leaving the EU has already lost us badly needed staff, who are going elsewhere in the EU for better pay and conditions. Removing the nursing bursary has cut the numbers going into the profession. Longer hours often with no pay, just because they care, is causing staff to leave or retire early. None of these have anything to do with "efficiencies".

Teaching the next generation of Doctors costs money and time. Time senior Doctors no longer have due to staff shortages and so the problem multiplies. All for what? Some mythical ideal, where stress no longer exists, with all the corresponding health problems vanishing. Get real.
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Old 03-12-2019, 18:55   #38
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Re: Millions to be affected by NHS plan to ration 34 everyday tests and treatments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua View Post
We live on my income and Mr A's small pension. We could claim benefits, but don't. We really are at the lower end of the tax paying spectrum, but live frugally and limit our outgoings. We don't even claim the married persons tax allowance as Mr A despairs of getting sense out of the government as they ask for P60 income and he has none.

The NHS is severely understaffed, this has a HUGE effect on costs. Nothing to do with efficiencies, you cannot get more out of a system that does not have the human resources to do the job in the first place. All you can do is hope the winter crisis is small and short lived, as there is no capacity for worse.

Leaving the EU has already lost us badly needed staff, who are going elsewhere in the EU for better pay and conditions. Removing the nursing bursary has cut the numbers going into the profession. Longer hours often with no pay, just because they care, is causing staff to leave or retire early. None of these have anything to do with "efficiencies".

Teaching the next generation of Doctors costs money and time. Time senior Doctors no longer have due to staff shortages and so the problem multiplies. All for what? Some mythical ideal, where stress no longer exists, with all the corresponding health problems vanishing. Get real.
I think I should clarify that I don't think the efficiency problem is down to the medical staff. It's the bureaucracy and the clapped out systems that they have to live with that is the problem.

We should be looking at those issues, implement the changes required and with the savings, improve working hours for the medics to attract more to the profession. The hours they have to work are ridiculous - no wonder we can't get the staff.
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Old 03-12-2019, 19:00   #39
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Re: Millions to be affected by NHS plan to ration 34 everyday tests and treatments

And when they tried to modernise their computer IT systems it was a clear and unmitigated disaster which the taxpayer had to foot the bill for.
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Old 03-12-2019, 19:15   #40
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Re: Millions to be affected by NHS plan to ration 34 everyday tests and treatments

The NHS is ruthlessly efficient in actual fact. A far smaller proportion of money spent goes on administration by comparison to US private sector healthcare.

What Old Boy means is we can't cream off profits into tax havens. Which is good for me, the UK taxpayer and the recipients of healthcare.

Could the "many" struggling to go without afford private health insurance? Probably not if they can't pay their bills as it is.
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Old 03-12-2019, 19:19   #41
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Re: Millions to be affected by NHS plan to ration 34 everyday tests and treatments

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
I think I should clarify that I don't think the efficiency problem is down to the medical staff. It's the bureaucracy and the clapped out systems that they have to live with that is the problem.

We should be looking at those issues, implement the changes required and with the savings, improve working hours for the medics to attract more to the profession. The hours they have to work are ridiculous - no wonder we can't get the staff.
And every time the myth of "too many managers in the NHS” comes up, I post this, but people still keep repeating the myth.

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/project...s/nhs-managers
Quote:
How does this compare to other sectors?

According to the Office for National Statistics, the proportion of managers in the UK workforce as a whole in June 2010 was 15.4 per cent. These statistics also show that there were 77,000 hospital and health service managers across the United Kingdom, or 4.8 per cent of the NHS workforce. In other words, the NHS has a managerial workforce that is one-third the size of that across the economy as a whole...

... The NHS in England is a £100 billion-a-year-plus business. It sees 1 million patients every 36 hours, spending nearly £2 billion a week. Aside from the banks, the only companies with a larger turnover in the FTSE 100 are the two global oil giants Shell and BP. If the NHS were a country it would be around the thirtieth largest in the world.

If anything, our analysis seems to suggest that the NHS, particularly given the complexity of health care, is under- rather than over-managed.
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Old 03-12-2019, 19:19   #42
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Re: Millions to be affected by NHS plan to ration 34 everyday tests and treatments

The average health insurance premium in the USA is $321 a month for individual coverage.
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Old 03-12-2019, 19:20   #43
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Re: Millions to be affected by NHS plan to ration 34 everyday tests and treatments

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The average health insurance premium in the USA is $321 a month for individual coverage.
And that doesn’t include co-pay and deductibles...

https://www.verywellhealth.com/deduc...erence-1738550
Quote:
Deductibles
A deductible is a fixed amount you pay each year before your health insurance kicks in fully. Once you’ve paid your deductible, your health plan begins to pick up its share of your health care bills. Here’s how it works.

Let's say your plan has a $2,000 deductible and counts all non-preventive services towards the deductible until it's met. You get the flu in January and see your doctor. After your health plan's negotiated discount, the doctor’s bill is $200. You are responsible for the entire bill since you haven’t paid your deductible yet this year. After paying the $200 doctor’s bill, you have $1,800 left to go on your yearly deductible.

In March, you fall and break your arm. The bill after your health plan's negotiated discount is $3,000. You pay $1,800 of that bill before you’ve met your yearly deductible of $2,000. Now, your health insurance kicks in and helps you pay the rest of the bill.

In April, you get your cast removed. The bill is $500. Since you’ve already met your deductible for the year, you don’t have to pay any more toward your deductible. Your health insurance pays its full share of this bill.

However, this doesn’t mean your health insurance will pay the entire bill and you won’t have to pay anything. Even though you’re done paying your deductible for the year, you may still owe a copayment or coinsurance, until you've met your plan's maximum out-of-pocket for the year (in most cases, coinsurance applies to services that would count towards the deductible if you hadn't already met it for the year)...

... Copayment
A copayment is a fixed amount you pay each time you get a particular type of healthcare service. Here’s how it works.

Let’s say your health insurance requires a copayment of $30 each time you see your primary care physician, $50 each time you see a specialist physician, and $20 each time you fill a generic prescription.

If you see your PCP on May 1, you pay the physician $30 that day. Your health plan picks up the rest of the bill for that visit. When you go back to your PCP on May 5, you have to pay another $30 copayment. Your health plan pays the rest of that bill, too.

Your PCP sends you to a specialist. When you see the specialist on May 12, you pay a $50 copayment to the specialist. Your health insurance pays the remainder of the specialist’s bill.

So if you have a $2,000 deductible in addition to various copays to see your primary care doctor or specialist or have a prescription filled, you'd have to meet your deductible for treatments other than those covered by copays.
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Old 03-12-2019, 19:28   #44
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Re: Millions to be affected by NHS plan to ration 34 everyday tests and treatments

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The average health insurance premium in the USA is $321 a month for individual coverage.
A fair chunk out of ones salary.
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Old 03-12-2019, 19:33   #45
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Re: Millions to be affected by NHS plan to ration 34 everyday tests and treatments

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A fair chunk out of ones salary.
Especially if you are one of those struggling to make ends meet that Old Boy cares so much about.
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