Brexit discussion

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Mr K

It is a sort of nice French blue !

Ca semble très sympa.

I think if you're Brexiteer or Remainer, this cartoon meme is hilarious...

[heero_yuy]

Quote from The Sun:


The leading Remoaner boss of Goldman Sachs - who has trolled Brexiteers since the referendum - now admits leaving the EU is “not as bad as he thought” after all.

The investment bank’s CEO Lloyd Blankfein admits he got it wrong on the impact of our historic vote to leave – saying he is surprised there hasn’t been ‘more of a dramatic effect’.

Speaking in London today he said: “Cassandra hasn’t been proved right.

“Some people would say, ‘hasn’t been proved right, yet’.”

According to Politico the 63-year-old American, who said Brexit would “stall” the City, added: “I’m at least wrong in that I thought there would have been a worse outcome by now.”

He said the UK economy had “surprised on the upside”, referring to the fact economic data has been better than Project Fear had expected it to be.

A grudging admission is better than none at all.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

A grudging admission is better than none at all.

It will gradually dawn on the most ardent remoaners eventually!

[1andrew1]

No real surprise to anyone who's been aware of the Irish border issues.

Exclusive: EU rejects Theresa May's Brexit Irish border solution as doubts grow over whether UK can leave customs union

The EU has comprehensively rejected British proposals for avoiding a hard border in Northern Ireland in a move which will cast serious doubt on the UK’s ability to leave the customs union, The Telegraph has learned.

Senior EU diplomatic sources said that Mrs May’s plan for avoiding a hard border in Northern Ireland was subjected to a “systematic and forensic annihilation” this week at a meeting between senior EU officials and Olly Robbins, the UK’s lead Brexit negotiator.

“It was a detailed and forensic rebuttal,” added the source who was directly briefed on the meeting in Brussels on Wednesday. “It was made clear that none of the UK’s customs options will work. None of them.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...rder-solution/

So the EU still being intransigent hardly news is it and we will see more of it before things get sorted, meanwhile there is growing support for a fair deal in the european parliament with a dutch representative being quite clear that the current EU stance is more about punishing the UK for leaving.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

So the EU still being intransigent hardly news is it and we will see more of it before things get sorted, meanwhile there is growing support for a fair deal in the european parliament with a dutch representative being quite clear that the current EU stance is more about punishing the UK for leaving.

If the article's accurate, Ireland's not been convinced by the UK's Potteresque solutions for the Irish border and the EU will support Ireland. I think it would be hard for the EU to ignore a member state which says a hard border will risk the Good Friday Agreement.

---------- Post added at 00:17 ---------- Previous post was at 00:09 ----------

Meanwhile, De La Rue has thrown in the towel and the Government has confirmed that French company Gemalto has the blue passport deal. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43807190

The EU had no problem ignoring the UK for many years as recently as cameron going to then to strengthen his position before the vote. You should watch some videos of the european parliament Andrew and see not only the growing support for the UK but many members criticising what the EU has become and how it's doing more damage then good. The UK is the first to leave the EU it won't be the last unless there is meaningful and practical reform of the entire institution and whilst i am now firmly anti EU i started out in my adult life as a supporter of the EEC.

The change from the EEC to the EU is huge and no longer represents what many originally supported and the complete inability and arrogance at the top of the EU to understand the feelings of tens of millions of europeans will be it's downfall. Anti EU feeling is on the rise and already the leaders of the two largest members have freely admitted that if their people got a vote on EU membership they would vote to leave. The whole thing is a house of cards and it isn't going to take much more for it to start falling apart and while you view brexit as a disaster when the real disaster does happen we will be well out of it.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

If the article's accurate, Ireland's not been convinced by the UK's Potteresque solutions for the Irish border and the EU will support Ireland. I think it would be hard for the EU to ignore a member state which says a hard border will risk the Good Friday Agreement.

This puts Ireland and the EU in a strange position. The UK Government has said it will not install a hard border.

So if there is no agreement and we don't install this hard border, will Ireland, or will the EU make a decision to install it?

I think they are backing themselves into a corner! There will not be a hard border between NI and Ireland. The EU wants to re-think this intransigent approach to the negotiations.

We just need to sit tight and see what happens next.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

This puts Ireland and the EU in a strange position. The UK Government has said it will not install a hard border.

So if there is no agreement and we don't install this hard border, will Ireland, or will the EU make a decision to install it?

I think they are backing themselves into a corner! There will not be a hard border between NI and Ireland. The EU wants to re-think this intransigent approach to the negotiations.

We just need to sit tight and see what happens next.

Nope. If the EU on Ireland's advices rejects the UK's Potteresque solution as the Telgraph suggests it has (not seen it widely reported elsewhere yet but the Telgraph is a reputable source) then the UK has agreed to a customs union between NI and Eire.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

This puts Ireland and the EU in a strange position. The UK Government has said it will not install a hard border.

WTO members like the EU and UK don't get a choice if they want to remain WTO members; both would have to do so if there was no customs union.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Nope. If the EU on Ireland's advices rejects the UK's Potteresque solution as the Telgraph suggests it has (not seen it widely reported elsewhere yet but the Telgraph is a reputable source) then the UK has agreed to a customs union between NI and Eire.
WTO members like the EU and UK don't get a choice if they want to remain WTO members; both would have to do so if there was no customs union.

It's not that black and white, Andrew. There are other alternatives, but some prefer not to see them.

Wouldn't it be refreshing if when they rejected something they suggested a new alternative that could work but i guess it's easier to do sod all and still get some people singing your praises and some people wonder why so many of us got fed up of the EU.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

It's not that black and white, Andrew. There are other alternatives, but some prefer not to see them.

If the article from the Brexit-supporting Telgraph is to be believed, it is black and white but some Brextremists like Michael Gove still prefer not to acknowledge this. I hope the article is wrong.
It would be quite refreshing if Michael Gove et al did face up to reality rather than kicking the tin can down the alley. But that would not go well with some of the electorate who still want to believe that you can have your cake and eat it.

---------- Post added at 17:11 ---------- Previous post was at 17:08 ----------

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Wouldn't it be refreshing if when they rejected something they suggested a new alternative that could work but i guess it's easier to do sod all and still get some people singing your praises and some people wonder why so many of us got fed up of the EU.

The options have been quite clear from day one, it's really not that hard.
https://flipchartfairytales.wordpres...at-it-bluster/

The corrupt EU can be ignored. Hard Brexit it is then, works for me.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

The corrupt EU can be ignored. Hard Brexit it is then, works for me.

Won't work for a lot of people in terms of jobs if we did that option. Ireland is a real issue that has been kicked down the alley for reasons of political short-termism.