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Coronavirus
View Poll Results: When you become eligible for the Covid Vaccine, would you take it?
Yes 75 85.23%
No 7 7.95%
Unsure 6 6.82%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 20-07-2021, 08:16   #6556
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max View Post
Oh for goodness sake don't get your knickers in a twist, if you want to live under your stairs, then go ahead, millions of people are sick of all this crap and want to get on with their lives, at the end of the day if Covid doesn't get you something else will.

If you actually bothered to read, You'll see I've agreed that we need to remove restrictions. my issue is that we're taking a big bang approach.


Where's your source to show that millions of people are 'sick of this crap' because the polling from various news sources shows that most people are not in favour of releasing the lockdown the way that Boris has.

---------- Post added at 08:11 ---------- Previous post was at 08:08 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter View Post
My reaction is understandable for someone at risk. I take it you've not lost a family member to covid (yet)?

They will either meet my requirements or I will use another supplier that will.
Whether i have lost a family member or not is of no relevance to how you acted in the situation. You COULD of explained the situation and asked them to do certain things.. instead you demanded that they wear masks on your property (laughable as you have no legal right to do this)

I don't think they will care one way or another if you use another supplier, especially when you come across as an entitled brat.

---------- Post added at 08:16 ---------- Previous post was at 08:11 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post
Not true, and since corrected.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...lance-12359317

Then again, as the vast majority get vaccinated, a percentage of those still ill will of course be people who have been vaccinated.

Its not 100% effective and no one has ever claimed it is.
This last line makes me wonder why Boris is introducing the passports. We know that the vaccines are highly effective protecting against hospitalizations and death. but they're not so good at protecting against transmission/infection.

It's the 'other large scale events' that concerns me, there's no clear definition of what that means.
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Old 20-07-2021, 08:26   #6557
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees View Post
<SNIP>

Whether i have lost a family member or not is of no relevance to how you acted in the situation. You COULD of explained the situation and asked them to do certain things.. instead you demanded that they wear masks on your property (laughable as you have no legal right to do this)

I don't think they will care one way or another if you use another supplier, especially when you come across as an entitled brat.

<SNIP>

I don't understand why you're going in so hard against RC. He has carefully (and respectfully) explained the basis for his attitude and that needs to be respected.
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Old 20-07-2021, 08:32   #6558
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post

I don't understand why you're going in so hard against RC. He has carefully (and respectfully) explained the basis for his attitude and that needs to be respected.

Did he ? because the post i read stated 'he demanded that people wear masks on his property'

You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
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Old 20-07-2021, 08:42   #6559
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees View Post
Did he ? because the post i read stated 'he demanded that people wear masks on his property'

You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
Well, do please remember that RC has a condition that would, imo, entitle him to some understanding and leeway.


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Old 20-07-2021, 08:46   #6560
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
Well, do please remember that RC has a condition that would, imo, entitle him to some understanding and leeway.


He's entitled to the same leeway and understanding the hw showed to the person he made demands of? and then subsequently stated that he would take business elsewhere (because that makes a difference)

Anyhow, onto more interesting & important things.

How's Boris going to respond to Dominic's latest salvo ?
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Old 20-07-2021, 08:54   #6561
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees View Post
He's entitled to the same leeway and understanding the hw showed to the person he made demands of? and then subsequently stated that he would take business elsewhere (because that makes a difference)

Anyhow, onto more interesting & important things.

How's Boris going to respond to Dominic's latest salvo ?
Forum etiquette is one thing - his report of what happened at his house is another and you should really try to be more understanding.

However, on the really interesting matter of Boris/Cummings - yes - that's gonna be fun. The more that Boris denies stuff, the sorrier the end will be for him.
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Old 20-07-2021, 08:57   #6562
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
Forum etiquette is one thing - his report of what happened at his house is another and you should really try to be more understanding.

However, on the really interesting matter of Boris/Cummings - yes - that's gonna be fun. The more that Boris denies stuff, the sorrier the end will be for him.
We'll agree to disagree on the prior. On the latter, however, complete agreement.

We have two proven liars, one a former advisor, one the prime minister. the question begs is who is telling the truth.....
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Old 20-07-2021, 09:08   #6563
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees View Post
We'll agree to disagree on the prior. On the latter, however, complete agreement.

We have two proven liars, one a former advisor, one the prime minister. the question begs is who is telling the truth.....
I don't think that Cummings is a liar. He took a view on his Covid behaviour which many people would not have seen as unreasonable. I can quite see how he can self-justify on that car trip. Problem for Cummings was the press hacks and the Labour hypocrites making hay.

I have no doubt that Cummings is telling the truth, though I don't know what embellishments there might be. Logic tells me that there are too many witnesses for him to diverge significantly from the truth.

You can just imagine Boris going on about the lives of 80 year olds being worthless (alright, Boris didn't say that but it's a corollary). If Boris denies that, all hell will eventually break loose. I suspect that the PMs in waiting would get their knives out pretty damn quick smart.

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Old 20-07-2021, 09:56   #6564
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
I don't think that Cummings is a liar. He took a view on his Covid behaviour which many people would not have seen as unreasonable. I can quite see how he can self-justify on that car trip. Problem for Cummings was the press hacks and the Labour hypocrites making hay.

I have no doubt that Cummings is telling the truth, though I don't know what embellishments there might be. Logic tells me that there are too many witnesses for him to diverge significantly from the truth.

You can just imagine Boris going on about the lives of 80 year olds being worthless (alright, Boris didn't say that but it's a corollary). If Boris denies that, all hell will eventually break loose. I suspect that the PMs in waiting would get their knives out pretty damn quick smart.

Just IMHO but from Boris's demeanor on the press conference yesterday i got the feeling that he didn't want to proceed with 'Freedom Day' and had only done so due to either 1) losing face in front of the population 2) significant internal party rebellion. He looked nervous and again IMHO out of his depth.
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Old 20-07-2021, 10:06   #6565
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees View Post
Just IMHO but from Boris's demeanour on the press conference yesterday i got the feeling that he didn't want to proceed with 'Freedom Day' and had only done so due to either 1) losing face in front of the population 2) significant internal party rebellion. He looked nervous and again IMHO out of his depth.
I think you're right - except that he DID want to do Freedom Day but knew he was moving along Shit Street nix paddle.
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Old 20-07-2021, 10:11   #6566
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Re: Coronavirus

Boris (or whoever would be in charge if not him) is going to have a bad time whatever.



If he had rolled back or reduced Freedom Day then the press would call him cowardly not to proceed and highlight all the losses to businesses and holiday makers. They would highlight that while infections are rising other figures aren't. They would find real heart rending situations about wedding cancelled, visits to grandparents stopped and so on.


If a partial freedom the press would have pages about all the complexities for the new rules, how already struggling businesses now have extra burdens. Again they would find heart rending tales of how one part of a family can meet but others can't or unfairness because on one street, some families can enjoy life again but just next door they can't.


----
On the report about 80 year olds - again statistics, if you are told that you need to shut the whole country down to protect one (smallish) group of people what would you do? (Forget if you have 80+year old relatives or are 80+ yourself for a moment.) Especially if you can make provision for that group fairly easily? (I'm not saying that these actions are true or possible.)
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Old 20-07-2021, 10:20   #6567
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
I think you're right - except that he DID want to do Freedom Day but knew he was moving along Shit Street nix paddle.
I think he DID initially, but with the cases/hospitalizations increasing as we got closer he wanted to back out, but couldn't due to reasons 1 & 2 specified above. His performance yesterday was atrocious and should concern people.

---------- Post added at 10:20 ---------- Previous post was at 10:12 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh View Post
Boris (or whoever would be in charge if not him) is going to have a bad time whatever.



If he had rolled back or reduced Freedom Day then the press would call him cowardly not to proceed and highlight all the losses to businesses and holiday makers. They would highlight that while infections are rising other figures aren't. They would find real heart rending situations about wedding cancelled, visits to grandparents stopped and so on.


If a partial freedom the press would have pages about all the complexities for the new rules, how already struggling businesses now have extra burdens. Again they would find heart rending tales of how one part of a family can meet but others can't or unfairness because on one street, some families can enjoy life again but just next door they can't.


----
On the report about 80 year olds - again statistics, if you are told that you need to shut the whole country down to protect one (smallish) group of people what would you do? (Forget if you have 80+year old relatives or are 80+ yourself for a moment.) Especially if you can make provision for that group fairly easily? (I'm not saying that these actions are true or possible.)

Regardless of situation I would rather do the right thing than continue and be called a coward. principles/ethics whatever you want to call it at least for me come into play.


On your second point. You're IMHO focusing on the wrong reasons. We didn't shut the country down to protect 80 year olds we kept locking down to protect the NHS from collapsing and to buy us time in the race to develop vaccines.

Have a think about case numbers/hospitalizations/deaths now and with the amount of people we have vaccinated. Now, take yourself back to a year ago and what would have happened had we not locked down, more than likely the magnitude of cases, subsequent hospitalisation & deaths would have collapsed the NHS and potentially more economic damage than we've sustained.
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Old 20-07-2021, 10:35   #6568
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh View Post
<SNIP>

On the report about 80 year olds - again statistics, if you are told that you need to shut the whole country down to protect one (smallish) group of people what would you do? (Forget if you have 80+year old relatives or are 80+ yourself for a moment.) Especially if you can make provision for that group fairly easily? (I'm not saying that these actions are true or possible.)

I think that's an artificial question that Boris tried to answer (unsuccessfully).

Patients with Covid were ejected from hospital into care homes (provision for the group), IIRC. They're over 80 - they don't matter and we might kill a few more off in the process (the latter isn't what they said (I think), but it's what happened).

If I were PM, I would not take the callous attitude. Reasons would be on one end the slaying I'd get from everywhere when the truth came out to be at the other end that I have a duty of care to every life in the UK.

That said, there is the matter of trusting the CMO and the CSO who are the caution merchants. But the figures speak for themselves and the science behind epidemiology is well established. This, in turn, determines how you should proceed - managing vaccinations and managing NHS delivery. We were very vulnerable when there was no vaccine and NHS workers could not be protected - but that is no longer the situation.

Finally - are the 80+ lives worth more than the economy? The person on the planet Zog might say "no". The UK population and the press and the political opportunists would wish not to sacrifice the 80+ people. Which leaves us with the possibility that Boris might as well be from Zog.



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Old 20-07-2021, 11:15   #6569
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post

I think that's an artificial question that Boris tried to answer (unsuccessfully).

Patients with Covid were ejected from hospital into care homes (provision for the group), IIRC. They're over 80 - they don't matter and we might kill a few more off in the process (the latter isn't what they said (I think), but it's what happened).

If I were PM, I would not take the callous attitude. Reasons would be on one end the slaying I'd get from everywhere when the truth came out to be at the other end that I have a duty of care to every life in the UK.

That said, there is the matter of trusting the CMO and the CSO who are the caution merchants. But the figures speak for themselves and the science behind epidemiology is well established. This, in turn, determines how you should proceed - managing vaccinations and managing NHS delivery. We were very vulnerable when there was no vaccine and NHS workers could not be protected - but that is no longer the situation.

Finally - are the 80+ lives worth more than the economy? The person on the planet Zog might say "no". The UK population and the press and the political opportunists would wish not to sacrifice the 80+ people. Which leaves us with the possibility that Boris might as well be from Zog.





So... Boris & ? DC ? Savid Javid ?

---------- Post added at 11:15 ---------- Previous post was at 10:41 ----------

mixed messages from the government this morning.

Paul Scully announced on Tuesday morning that self-isolating after being told to by the app was a decision for individuals and employers.

Downing Street has dismissed suggestions from business minister Paul Scully that self-isolating when pinged by the Covid-19 app should be a matter for individuals and employers to decide.

It was “crucial” to self-isolate when told and business should be supporting employees to do so, Downing Street said.


Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-57898328

Here's the interesting thing, Paul Sculy is correct, there's no legal requirement to self isolate when pinged by the app, it's only a legal requirement when contacted via Track & Trace
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Old 20-07-2021, 13:26   #6570
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees View Post
If you actually bothered to read, You'll see I've agreed that we need to remove restrictions. my issue is that we're taking a big bang approach.


Where's your source to show that millions of people are 'sick of this crap' because the polling from various news sources shows that most people are not in favour of releasing the lockdown the way that Boris has.

---------- Post added at 08:11 ---------- Previous post was at 08:08 ----------



Whether i have lost a family member or not is of no relevance to how you acted in the situation. You COULD of explained the situation and asked them to do certain things.. instead you demanded that they wear masks on your property (laughable as you have no legal right to do this)

I don't think they will care one way or another if you use another supplier, especially when you come across as an entitled brat.

---------- Post added at 08:16 ---------- Previous post was at 08:11 ----------



This last line makes me wonder why Boris is introducing the passports. We know that the vaccines are highly effective protecting against hospitalizations and death. but they're not so good at protecting against transmission/infection.

It's the 'other large scale events' that concerns me, there's no clear definition of what that means.
I've already explained that he was (literally) in my face before I could do anything.

I have the right to insist that any precautions I deem necessary are respected on my property.

Seeing as your arrogant/rude attitude stinks so much, you have no right to insult anybody else. Just take a look back at how you've spoken to me and others, neuro diverse or otherwise.
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