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[telegramsam]

I`d like to see the bigger richer clubs supporting their lower league neighbours in some way. Maybe they could offer fans a chance to buy a ticket at a slightly higher cost which is valid for example a Newcastle home game and a Gateshead home game? It could work in my opinion. I know of some people who go to Boro home games and Hartlepool ones when Boro are away.

[1andrew1]

One good thing the Premier League does I've discovered is to share the TV rights more equally than other countries.
"The ratio of ‘fairness share’ between City (£60.6m in 2011-12) and Wolves (£39.1m) was 1.55 to 1 in the Premier League. Or in other words City got 1.55 times as much from central funds as Wolves.

In Spain, where Barcelona and Real Madrid do their own TV deals and don’t share the cash and leave the rest of La Liga to feed on scraps, the ratio of distribution is currently about 14 to 1. So Barca and Real scoff 14 times as much as the lesser clubs in La Liga. That’s why they’re so stonking rich and can pay the world’s highest wages.

In Italy’s Serie A, the ratio is about 10 to 1, in France’s Ligue 1 it is about 3.5 to 1, and in the German Bundesliga it is 2 to 1.

So the Premier League is fair by that measure.

Whether the Premier League should give a much bigger share of its money to clubs across the whole English game is another – much more contentious – debate altogether."
Source: http://www.sportingintelligence.com/...t-next-190601/

---------- Post added at 16:27 ---------- Previous post was at 16:24 ----------

Originally Posted by telegramsam

I`d like to see the bigger richer clubs supporting their lower league neighbours in some way. Maybe they could offer fans a chance to buy a ticket at a slightly higher cost which is valid for example a Newcastle home game and a Gateshead home game? It could work in my opinion. I know of some people who go to Boro home games and Hartlepool ones when Boro are away.

Interesting suggestion though I wonder what the Premier League clubs would think about the idea?

[vincerooney]

Originally Posted by denphone

It cost us £24 per ticket when l went to Torquay with my three brothers to support Portsmouth last season and to add insult to injury they searched us all then stamped us on the hand.

yeah its a disgrace den. but yet they're charging ridiculous

Originally Posted by alwaysabear

The B league was dead in the water from day one. The supporters were against it and the lower league were against it.

it shouldnt have been though. clubs are overcharging to desperately keep themselves afloat. surely that should tell us that

1) the lower league clubs cannot sustain themselves
2) theyre ripping fans off to try and keep above water providing no value for money
3) have poor or lacklustre training facilities which hinder development of youth as they can barely afford to operate never mind improve their facilities.

its bleak and you get about 2k loyal fans passionately trying to keep the likes of accrington, dagenham, morecambe, burton, cheltenham etc in the football league protesting strongly. the sad fact is theyre remaining in the football league as the uk is so backward to progress.

imagine top flight clubs with B teams. the youth players who finally get to taste league football rather than rotting in chelseas youth sides. young kids who get to train in state of the art facilities with top coaches for a B team. who then they get experience get promoted and then shockingly would experience EPL first team experience.

instead we get the "plucky" accrington stanley with their 2000 passionate fans protesting progress. the young players train at a local park with a head coach who used to be a train driver. the facilities include a shed and bucket of water and sponge. the

and then we wonder why no english players are produced. as chelski continue to hoarde any talented english kid and let them rot in the inadequete youth league system never trusting the kid in the first team as they're so inexperienced.

These same 2000 angry fans will then call up bereating the lack of english youth. You have to laugh or you'd cry. In germany or spain they'd be wiped clean. In england its a case of "aww but they've always been here". Same old england. always looking back never forward.

[alwaysabear]

Originally Posted by vincerooney

yeah its a disgrace den. but yet they're charging ridiculous



it shouldnt have been though. clubs are overcharging to desperately keep themselves afloat. surely that should tell us that

1) the lower league clubs cannot sustain themselves
2) theyre ripping fans off to try and keep above water providing no value for money
3) have poor or lacklustre training facilities which hinder development of youth as they can barely afford to operate never mind improve their facilities.

its bleak and you get about 2k loyal fans passionately trying to keep the likes of accrington, dagenham, morecambe, burton, cheltenham etc in the football league protesting strongly. the sad fact is theyre remaining in the football league as the uk is so backward to progress.

imagine top flight clubs with B teams. the youth players who finally get to taste league football rather than rotting in chelseas youth sides. young kids who get to train in state of the art facilities with top coaches for a B team. who then they get experience get promoted and then shockingly would experience EPL first team experience.

instead we get the "plucky" accrington stanley with their 2000 passionate fans protesting progress. the young players train at a local park with a head coach who used to be a train driver. the facilities include a shed and bucket of water and sponge. the

and then we wonder why no english players are produced. as chelski continue to hoarde any talented english kid and let them rot in the inadequete youth league system never trusting the kid in the first team as they're so inexperienced.

These same 2000 angry fans will then call up bereating the lack of english youth. You have to laugh or you'd cry. In germany or spain they'd be wiped clean. In england its a case of "aww but they've always been here". Same old england. always looking back never forward.

I do not disagree with you! In this Country its all about vested interest, that's why change is so difficult to achieve in all walks of life.

---------- Post added at 17:06 ---------- Previous post was at 17:01 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

One good thing the Premier League does I've discovered is to share the TV rights more equally than other countries.
"The ratio of ‘fairness share’ between City (£60.6m in 2011-12) and Wolves (£39.1m) was 1.55 to 1 in the Premier League. Or in other words City got 1.55 times as much from central funds as Wolves.

In Spain, where Barcelona and Real Madrid do their own TV deals and don’t share the cash and leave the rest of La Liga to feed on scraps, the ratio of distribution is currently about 14 to 1. So Barca and Real scoff 14 times as much as the lesser clubs in La Liga. That’s why they’re so stonking rich and can pay the world’s highest wages.

In Italy’s Serie A, the ratio is about 10 to 1, in France’s Ligue 1 it is about 3.5 to 1, and in the German Bundesliga it is 2 to 1.

So the Premier League is fair by that measure.

Whether the Premier League should give a much bigger share of its money to clubs across the whole English game is another – much more contentious – debate altogether."
Source: http://www.sportingintelligence.com/...t-next-190601/

---------- Post added at 16:27 ---------- Previous post was at 16:24 ----------

Interesting suggestion though I wonder what the Premier League clubs would think about the idea?

Maybe they should consider the NFL model .

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by alwaysabear

I do not disagree with you! In this Country its all about vested interest, that's why change is so difficult to achieve in all walks of life.

---------- Post added at 17:06 ---------- Previous post was at 17:01 ----------



Maybe they should consider the NFL model .

I think Football is such an emotional thing, even changing team names is highly controversial. That's why there's llitte appetite for change.
That's why supporters rarely switch clubs.
Though if team names never change, we'd still have Newton Heath Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway Football Club playing at Old Trafford!
What is the NFL model? Regional franchises?

[Gavin-D]

Can sky sports HD be added to my account online through my Virgin Media?

[harry_hitch]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I think Football is such an emotional thing, even changing team names is highly controversial. That's why there's llitte appetite for change.
That's why supporters rarely switch clubs.
Though if team names never change, we'd still have Newton Heath Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway Football Club playing at Old Trafford!
What is the NFL model? Regional franchises?

I am sure alwaysabear will be able to explain in more depth, but it has something to do with all revenue or profits from the big teams, are shared with the smaller teams.

[alwaysabear]

Originally Posted by harry_hitch

I am sure alwaysabear will be able to explain in more depth, but it has something to do with all revenue or profits from the big teams, are shared with the smaller teams.

In the NFL all teams share revenue that the NFL organisation negotiates. TV Rights , merchandising and sponsorship.
The latest figures I have found show the 32 teams shared $6 billion last season. That's $187.7 million to each franchise.
Each team keeps there own ticket sales.

[harry_hitch]

Originally Posted by alwaysabear

In the NFL all teams share revenue that the NFL organisation negotiates. TV Rights , merchandising and sponsorship.
The latest figures I have found show the 32 teams shared $6 billion last season. That's $187.7 million to each franchise.
Each team keeps there own ticket sales.

Ah, thanks for info alwaysabear, it appears I was way off..

It would be nice for the FA to introduce this, but I think the PL would create far too much of a stink and would stop it from happening.

[andy_m]

English football doesn't need to copy nfl. There is a shining example much closer to home, and in the same sport. No 3pm tv blackout, competitive and low ticket prices, attendances up, public transport key, sustainable clubs with fan input, regular involvement in the latter stages of the Champions League, oh, and they're World Champions as well.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by andy_m

English football doesn't need to copy nfl. There is a shining example much closer to home, and in the same sport. No 3pm tv blackout, competitive and low ticket prices, attendances up, public transport key, sustainable clubs with fan input, regular involvement in the latter stages of the Champions League, oh, and they're World Champions as well.

Pretty much agree with all you've said there except the 3pm matches. As only 154 out of 380 Premier League matches are shown - 41% - we don't see most matches anyway. So effectively most matches are "blacked out". I don't know what percentage are shown in other countries, it would be interesting to know.
Certainly, I think the 3pm is unique to the UK because we are said to have a lot of smaller leagues that other countries don't have.

---------- Post added at 21:58 ---------- Previous post was at 21:57 ----------

Originally Posted by alwaysabear

In the NFL all teams share revenue that the NFL organisation negotiates. TV Rights , merchandising and sponsorship.
The latest figures I have found show the 32 teams shared $6 billion last season. That's $187.7 million to each franchise.
Each team keeps there own ticket sales.

Thanks. Is the revenue shared equally between teams then?

[harry_hitch]

Originally Posted by andy_m

English football doesn't need to copy nfl. There is a shining example much closer to home, and in the same sport. No 3pm tv blackout, competitive and low ticket prices, attendances up, public transport key, sustainable clubs with fan input, regular involvement in the latter stages of the Champions League, oh, and they're World Champions as well.

I fail to see how no 3pm blackout will help improve the English game for fans. I am not saying it will destroy the lower league clubs, but equally I don't see how it will improve things.

I would love see some change in English football, but I would prefer the NFL way of doing things. I don't think think the German model can be replicated over here.

I think, in Germany they only have 56 professional clubs (as opposed to our 92 - that is 36 less clubs) so fans have less clubs in towns/cities they can choose to support. I.E. If Nottingham Forrest (for example) ever went bust (god forbid), there will only be one main club in Nottingham and as such Notts County would probably get more people watch football there.
As such, the 56 clubs should (in theory) be able to have more choice of players to choose from - thus allowing them to pick the best players around who they can develop and sell on, have more fans support their clubs, get more fans in the stadia and as a result, offer lower prices because of it. Of the 56 clubs, lets not forget some of the 56 clubs are reserve teams, and this helps reduce the number of other professional teams from other towns/cities, allowing the remaining clubs to reach even more potential fans from their town/city.

If the lower league English clubs could consistently afford to offer lower prices, I am sure they would.

As far as I am aware, the German FA are not held to ransom by a PL equivalent either.

This (in my eyes) is ultimately the problem, the PL is too big and the clubs/players too greedy. They could easily afford to share the TV wealth and still lower tickets prices, but they want to throw money at plenty very average players from around the world, so they can sell their product in more countries. I have no problem with the best players coming over, but it's the average players earning a fortune which annoy me the most. If Newcastle (for example) can not find English players who are equally as good as some of their current 1st team players, I will be a monkeys uncle.

I fully agree with fan input though, just look at how well Swansea have done because of it. Clubs should be about the fans, and not the owners plaything.

[Superblade7]

Originally Posted by vincerooney

it shouldnt have been though. clubs are overcharging to desperately keep themselves afloat. surely that should tell us that

1) the lower league clubs cannot sustain themselves
2) theyre ripping fans off to try and keep above water providing no value for money
3) have poor or lacklustre training facilities which hinder development of youth as they can barely afford to operate never mind improve their facilities.

its bleak and you get about 2k loyal fans passionately trying to keep the likes of accrington, dagenham, morecambe, burton, cheltenham etc in the football league protesting strongly. the sad fact is theyre remaining in the football league as the uk is so backward to progress.

imagine top flight clubs with B teams. the youth players who finally get to taste league football rather than rotting in chelseas youth sides. young kids who get to train in state of the art facilities with top coaches for a B team. who then they get experience get promoted and then shockingly would experience EPL first team experience.

instead we get the "plucky" accrington stanley with their 2000 passionate fans protesting progress. the young players train at a local park with a head coach who used to be a train driver. the facilities include a shed and bucket of water and sponge. the

and then we wonder why no english players are produced. as chelski continue to hoarde any talented english kid and let them rot in the inadequete youth league system never trusting the kid in the first team as they're so inexperienced.

These same 2000 angry fans will then call up bereating the lack of english youth. You have to laugh or you'd cry. In germany or spain they'd be wiped clean. In england its a case of "aww but they've always been here". Same old england. always looking back never forward.

I'd somewhat disagree with you there vince. The England team has really gone downhill since the beginning of the Premier League. The problem is that it's now the Premier League that control English Football rather than the FA or Football league resulting in it being all about ever-increasing their revenues.

The only way you will ever improve the England team again would be to re-introduce some form of quota system to say that each Premier League team has to have say 5 English players in their starting 11. Getting English players playing regularly for the top clubs is the only way to save the England team.

You only have to look at the top European teams such as Germany, Spain and Italy and most of their first 11 are made up of players from the top two or three clubs within their country. When you look at the top 3 Premier League teams, I think you'd struggle to make up an England 11 and it was only a few years ago when Arsenal didn't have a single English player in their team.

The B Team idea would have destroyed the Football League. You'd have ended up with a situation under the proposal where the Premier League B teams, due to the resources available, would have ended up finishing in the top 10 places in League 1 but couldn't have got promoted. So you could have ended up with a weird scenario where the team finishing 11th would then be promoted to the Championship?

Also, would the B Team idea have helped the England Team? Many of the top clubs bring across young kids from overseas at the ages of 11/12 so they can qualify under the current 'home grown' rule. Would these have then been eligible to play in the B Teams and if so, again to the detriment of the England team.

So yes, we probably have the best and most exciting league in the world which draws all the top players but has an impact on the England team.

[andy_m]

The 3pm blackout thing has been tested through the European Courts. We are one of a hand full of countries which operates it. There is no evidence to suggest it impacts on attendances in any of the countries which don't.

[alwaysabear]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Pretty much agree with all you've said there except the 3pm matches. As only 154 out of 380 Premier League matches are shown - 41% - we don't see most matches anyway. So effectively most matches are "blacked out". I don't know what percentage are shown in other countries, it would be interesting to know.
Certainly, I think the 3pm is unique to the UK because we are said to have a lot of smaller leagues that other countries don't have.

---------- Post added at 21:58 ---------- Previous post was at 21:57 ----------

Thanks. Is the revenue shared equally between teams then?

Yes, each team has an equal share of the $6billion.