22-05-2019, 15:45
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#2446
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vox populi vox dei
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: the last resort
Services: every thing
Posts: 13,739
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99
Examples are not necessary. This is folklore now.
---------- Post added at 15:32 ---------- Previous post was at 15:30 ----------
Show me an example of the reverse where people asking to debate the issues are called "Treacherous ****" and worse and I will be more than happy to condemn it.
I just ask you to do the same. Over to you ..
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A BREXIT supporter died just hours after he was beaten and threatened by a Remain-backing neighbour in a row over the result of the EU referendum.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/197982...eu-referendum/
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To be or not to be, woke is the question Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer. The slings and arrows of outrageous wokedome, Or to take arms against a sea of wokies. And by opposing end them.
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22-05-2019, 15:54
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#2448
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067
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Middlesbrough
Age: 48
Services: Many
Posts: 4,605
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
The referendum simply gave HMG a mandate to take us out of the EU. The idea that it mandated any specific way of doing that is just remainer wishful thinking.
None of the Leave campaigns represented either government or official opposition. The official status of one leave campaign was a legal device designed to regulate funding and access to TV airtime. It did not designate their campaign material as a kind of quasi-manifesto.
You may feel the whole thing was appallingly sloppy and unfair but it was legal, and the result - a simple, naked mandate to leave the EU - was valid.
I’m afraid that arguments based on the exact nature of the mandate granted in 2016, great as they may sound, are not valid.
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By the same logic it mandated no specific way to leave the EU. Leave with no deal being the default is the leave voters wishful thinking.
When you can show me explicitly where on the ballot paper it said leave the EU with a completely clean break THEN you have a point.
You voted the options on the ballot paper.
what you were told, and what were on the ballot paper were two differing offerings.
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Nerves of steel, heart of gold, knob of butter......
Last edited by mrmistoffelees; 22-05-2019 at 16:04.
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22-05-2019, 16:12
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#2449
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Still alive and fighting
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In the land of beyond and beyond.
Services: XL BB, 3 360 boxes , XL TV.
Posts: 56,308
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
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Spot on.
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“The only lesson you can learn from history is that it repeats itself”
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22-05-2019, 16:24
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#2450
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Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 36,925
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees
By the same logic it mandated no specific way to leave the EU. Leave with no deal being the default is the leave voters wishful thinking.
When you can show me explicitly where on the ballot paper it said leave the EU with a completely clean break THEN you have a point.
You voted the options on the ballot paper.
what you were told, and what were on the ballot paper were two differing offerings.
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Errr ... no. I have never claimed the result of the referendum mandated leaving with no deal. However, actions subsequently taken by parliament have created a legal situation where we leave by default without a deal if Brexit Day passes without one having been ratified.
I would rather we left the EU with transitional arrangements (a “deal”) in place, but above all I fully expect the instructions of the British electorate given in 2016 to be enacted. The lack of a deal cannot be used to thwart the referendum result by the back door.
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22-05-2019, 16:35
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#2451
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: #Plagueisland
Age: 53
Services: VM VIP Pack
Posts: 1,668
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99
Examples are not necessary. This is folklore now
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Very true! Up there with bendy bananas, etc
Synonyms of folklore
legend, legendry, lore, myth, mythology, mythos, tradition
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22-05-2019, 16:41
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#2452
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Rise above the players
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
Services: 2 V6 boxes with 360 software, Now, ITVX, Amazon, Netflix, Lionsgate+, Apple+, Disney+, Paramount +,
Posts: 14,589
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99
There is no mandate for No Deal I am afraid. The official Leave campaign did not endorse or promote No Deal in 2016.
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Nonsense. We voted for Brexit, not Brino.
---------- Post added at 16:41 ---------- Previous post was at 16:38 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx
Very true! Up there with bendy bananas, etc
Synonyms of folklore
legend, legendry, lore, myth, mythology, mythos, tradition
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You can bend with the bananas if you want to. Brexiteers are not for bending.
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22-05-2019, 17:05
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#2453
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Sulking in the Corner
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: RG41
Services: 1 Gbps; Hub 4 MM; ASUS RT-AX88U; Ultimate VOLT. BT Infinity2; Devolo 1200AV
Posts: 11,955
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
It’s a commonly used tactic, go onto you tube and see infowars or similar where American conservatives attend Leftist anti-trump rallies.
And see how the “American Liberal Left” react to someone with a different opinion wanting to engage in civil debate.
No one can claim moral superiority in this type of thing.
I would be quite happy for the question of deal or no deal be put to the public, then we’ll see if there is a mandate or not. There’s certainly no mandate in parliament, but as we know parliament is not representative of the people.
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Excellent point. No deal or May’s deal. Entirely in the spirit of the last Referendum.
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Seph.
My advice is at your risk.
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22-05-2019, 17:06
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#2454
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,231
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
The referendum simply gave HMG a mandate to take us out of the EU. The idea that it mandated any specific way of doing that is just remainer wishful thinking.
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It's also wishful thinking by some Leavers who feel that Parliament should read their minds in terms of the type of exit.
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22-05-2019, 18:07
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#2455
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Rise above the players
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
Services: 2 V6 boxes with 360 software, Now, ITVX, Amazon, Netflix, Lionsgate+, Apple+, Disney+, Paramount +,
Posts: 14,589
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
It's also wishful thinking by some Leavers who feel that Parliament should read their minds in terms of the type of exit.
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Only remainers believe that, Andrew. Give us a break!
I'd be interested to hear from you how you expect us to forge new trade deals independently if we remain in the Customs Union.
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22-05-2019, 18:37
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#2456
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,423
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
The referendum simply gave HMG a mandate to take us out of the EU. The idea that it mandated any specific way of doing that is just remainer wishful thinking.
None of the Leave campaigns represented either government or official opposition. The official status of one leave campaign was a legal device designed to regulate funding and access to TV airtime. It did not designate their campaign material as a kind of quasi-manifesto.
You may feel the whole thing was appallingly sloppy and unfair but it was legal, and the result - a simple, naked mandate to leave the EU - was valid.
I’m afraid that arguments based on the exact nature of the mandate granted in 2016, great as they may sound, are not valid.
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This is your interpretation which you are entitled to. However, the flawed referendum has to be assessed on what was promised and not what all the possible, mathematical permutations may be.
You wish to Leave so you are happy to abandon the principles at stake here. For many, the actions should follow what was discussed & promised. Not what was not discussed and not promised. To do so would devalue the already devalued currency of trust in politicians.
I understand your "Brexit at all costs" approach to this but for the majority of the country, this is not the desired path ..
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22-05-2019, 18:41
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#2457
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10 yrs same company 😁
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Expanding Town with crap roads
Age: 64
Services: ? BB, basic phone. Share of Disney+
Posts: 7,665
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Only remainers believe that, Andrew. Give us a break!
I'd be interested to hear from you how you expect us to forge new trade deals independently if we remain in the Customs Union.
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So why when people were offered a choice on which sort of Brexit, we ended up with a hung parliament? If the version planned by May was preferred, she would have romped home.
Surely it is better that a government at least attempts to bring the country together, rather than ignore half the voters.
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22-05-2019, 18:52
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#2458
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,423
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf
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Your point? Everyone on this forum would condemn this behaviour outright.
Of course, the irony here is that you highlight the kind of hate and division this whole grubby project has emboldened and validated.
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22-05-2019, 18:57
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#2459
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Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 36,925
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua
So why when people were offered a choice on which sort of Brexit, we ended up with a hung parliament? If the version planned by May was preferred, she would have romped home.
Surely it is better that a government at least attempts to bring the country together, rather than ignore half the voters.
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How do you figure that?
General elections are fought on a range of issues, but if there’s one particular thing that lost it for the Tories it was May’s disastrous campaign in which she promised to take her core vote’s life savings off them.
Both main parties pledged to implement Brexit; beyond that headline I sincerely doubt whether most voters paid much attention to the details of how they proposed to implement it. However, it was emphatically not Labour’s policy to hold a second referendum prior to us leaving. That they have tried to make that a precondition of supporting the Brexit bill is a betrayal of their manifesto and those who voted for them.
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22-05-2019, 18:59
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#2460
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Still alive and fighting
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In the land of beyond and beyond.
Services: XL BB, 3 360 boxes , XL TV.
Posts: 56,308
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Only remainers believe that, Andrew. Give us a break!
I'd be interested to hear from you how you expect us to forge new trade deals independently if we remain in the Customs Union.
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Lets not pigeon hole all remainers please!!!!
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