Brexit discussion

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

It’s only interesting if it fits the Anti-brexit narrative.

Of course the guardian will post these kind of stories, it’s obvious there are people who have changed their minds, but this is not attributed to just people who voted leave.

Again, it’s all one sidedness with you. You’ve put this article here to try highlight there is just ‘leavers remorse’, you said nothing about there being remainers remorse, but that short sentence about Yougov’s findings, completely negates any point of the article, the article has bias, where are the interviews for people who regret voting Remain?

I've posted pro-Brexit articles in the past which were ignored because people just wanted to take issue with me for posting things like the European Medicines Agency leaving. Which it has but I guess those peoples' jobs are a price worth paying?
The consensus is that the UK will suffer in the way that a man who bites his nose off to spite his face will. Thus, wer're not talking of imminent trade deals and tax cuts but more of increased prices and uncertainty. Even the St Petersburgh troll farms would be hard-placed to put a spin on things. Maybe they can sew discontent by pretending that the EU is at fault for agreeing stricter terms for the European Capital of Culture back in 2014 but that's the limit of what they can do as the material doesn't exist. Hint. There is a reason for this and it's because we're now entering Project Reality. Politicians promised us a land of milk and honey not Bombardier trade disputes and chlorinated chicken.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Mick

Yes which is what I’m trying to clearly demonstrate Den,, I have always brought both sides in to the debate.

The issue of the government is a separate issue, plus the EU is also being a PITA as well, so you cannot just blame HMG. The EU is being as vindictive as they can be.

As l always say it takes two sides to tango and two sides to sort out a good and reasonable deal for all sides.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I've posted pro-Brexit articles in the past which were ignored because people just wanted to take issue with me for posting things like the European Medicines Agency leaving. Which it has but I guess those peoples' jobs are a price worth paying?
The consensus is that the UK will suffer in the way that a man who bites his nose off to spite his face will. Thus, wer're not talking of imminent trade deals and tax cuts but more of increased prices and uncertainty. Even the St Petersburgh troll farms would be hard-placed to put a spin on things. Maybe they can sew discontent by pretending that the EU is at fault for agreeing stricter terms for the European Capital of Culture back in 2014 but that's the limit of what they can do as the material doesn't exist. Hint. There is a reason for this and it's because we're now entering Project Reality. Politicians promised us a land of milk and honey not Bombardier trade disputes and chlorinated chicken.

Here we go again with the Russian interference BS.

You will forgive me, or won’t, I don’t care which, if I refute your claims, we will be worse off.

We can still have the same arrangements if we can amicably leave with a deal, we can still trade with the EU without paying a hefty membership fee but more importantly, we can make our own trade arrangements, on our own terms, with the rest of the world, which is a much bigger market. I have pointed out that Billionaire Sir James Dyson has stated the EU market is shrinking and is predicted to fall further in the next 5 years, while the Far East it is growing exponentially.

[Osem]

Funny how so many of those trying to overturn the Brexit result cite a hatred of far right politics when the very club they want us to be tethered to for eternity is fast moving in that direction led now by Germany and closely followed by France, Holland, Austria, Hungary, Poland... Not to worry though when you can just portray Farage and even the Tories as being extremist by way of reasoning...

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by denphone

As l always say it takes two sides to tango and two sides to sort out a good and reasonable deal for all sides.

So why when it's one side being awkward and bloody minded do you criticise both sides?

The UK is trying to make headway, but the EU beasties are pretty obstinate.

---------- Post added at 16:23 ---------- Previous post was at 16:20 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I previously posted a great but lengthy RTE article about how the Irish border could well be a stumbling block for negotiations in December. It explained that no matter how much progress the UK with paying its settlement bill, the border remained a sticking point and this part of the Brexit process was Ireland' s only opportunity to veto the deal.

This issue now seems to be reported a lot more widely.

The top headline on SkyNews is now Ireland 'threat to veto Brexit trade talks


There are similar stories across a range of news outlets.

They all pick up from today's Observer report.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...r-brexit-chaos

Well, it's a bit difficult to sort out the Irish border issues while the EU prevents us from talking about trade!

[denphone]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

So why when it's one side being awkward and bloody minded do you criticise both sides?

The UK is trying to make headway, but the EU beasties are pretty obstinate.

Well if you take those narrow blinkers off for once the reality that both sides are to blame are as clear as night turns to day but l forgot if ones does not like what they hear they tend to develop convenient memory loss rather quickly to what they don't like to hear.

---------- Post added at 16:31 ---------- Previous post was at 16:28 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The UK is trying to make headway, but the EU beasties are pretty obstinate

Both sides are as bad as each other as perhaps both should learn the skill of flexibility rather then the current intransigence that currently prevails from both sides sadly.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

So why when it's one side being awkward and bloody minded do you criticise both sides?

The UK is trying to make headway, but the EU beasties are pretty obstinate.

---------- Post added at 16:23 ---------- Previous post was at 16:20 ----------


Well, it's a bit difficult to sort out the Irish border issues while the EU prevents us from talking about trade!

Yeah according to some around here anyone would think it's the UK which is constantly preventing progress in the talks - nothing whatsoever to do with the EU being utterly intransigent...

The Irish want the border assurances before the talks about trade because they have less leverage when the talks move on. The problem is:

1) The Irish and Northern Irish do not want a border in Ireland (and Vote Leave/Brexiters said there would not be).
2) The DUP and N.Irish Unionists generally do not want a border in the Irish Sea
3) We do not want there to be no border between us and an EU nation.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by denphone

Well if you take those narrow blinkers off for once the reality that both sides are to blame are as clear as night turns to day but l forgot if ones does not like what they hear they tend to develop convenient memory loss rather quickly to what they don't like to hear.

---------- Post added at 16:31 ---------- Previous post was at 16:28 ----------



Both sides are as bad as each other as perhaps both should learn the skill of flexibility rather then the current intransigence that currently prevails from both sides sadly.

Once again, you tell us this stuff with no explanation.

The media have reported on numerous occasions that the UK Government is trying to move talks on, but the EU want to see how much money they can screw out of us first. They seem oblivious to the fact that trade talks might actually enable us to make more concessions and come up with more solutions.

How the hell they think we can deal with the Irish border issue until we know the outcome of the trade talks, I really don't know.

The EU needs to stop playing games. Time to Tango, Barnier!

[Osem]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Once again, you tell us this stuff with no explanation.

The media have reported on numerous occasions that the UK Government is trying to move talks on, but the EU want to see how much money they can screw out of us first. They seem oblivious to the fact that trade talks might actually enable us to make more concessions and come up with more solutions.

How the hell they think we can deal with the Irish border issue until we know the outcome of the trade talks, I really don't know.

The EU needs to stop playing games. Time to Tango, Barnier!

... and the sad thing is that certain politicians in this country such as Nick Clegg, George Osborne and Tony Blair would happily do the EU's work for it simply in order to undermine the Brexit process and get their way in spite of the referendum result. Meanwhile Labour sits back with no credible policy simply making mischief for their opponents without a care for the damage it's doing to the UK's interests and the amount the UK will have to fork out for the privilege. I'd have less of a probme with that if they wanted to stay in but they don't and what they're doing is pure cynical opportunism.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

How the hell they think we can deal with the Irish border issue until we know the outcome of the trade talks, I really don't know.

The EU needs to stop playing games. Time to Tango, Barnier!

You can deal the Irish border question before trade talks start, after all Brexiters were telling us it wouldn't be an issue.

The government has already ruled out the prospect of either staying in the single market or the customs union. So either they're going to give a exemption to Ireland or they are not. Where your border starts is not a topic for a trade deal.

---------- Post added at 21:02 ---------- Previous post was at 20:57 ----------

Originally Posted by Osem

... and the sad thing is that certain politicians in this country such as Nick Clegg, George Osborne and Tony Blair would happily do the EU's work for it simply in order to undermine the Brexit process and get their way in spite of the referendum result. Meanwhile Labour sits back with no credible policy simply making mischief for their opponents without a care for the damage it's doing to the UK's interests and the amount the UK will have to fork out for the privilege. I'd have less of a probme with that if they wanted to stay in but they don't and what they're doing is pure cynical opportunism.

Maybe it's time for the people who led the Vote Leave campaign to tell us their ideas for all these problems they said wouldn't be issue instead of blaming people on the losing side who are now out of office anyway.

They wanted this, they're in charge, this is their responsbility. Suddenly Ireland is going to be a problem, as anyone would have guessed, and they're blaming everyone else. They've had a year and a half. Where is their answer?

[Mr K]

Why are there so many problems/issues with Brexit? It's such a good well thought out way forward, that surely the mere thought of it will give our economy a massive boost? Yet the opposite seems to have happened, and the outlook for the UK is grim compared to other EU countries. Our growth rate is lower than that of the Eurozone, and the lowest in the G7.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a8028891.html

It's an utter mystery, as it's a brilliant idea, what can of possibly gone wrong?? ......

Originally Posted by Mr K

Why are there so many problems/issues with Brexit? It's such a good well thought out way forward, that surely the mere thought of it will give our economy a massive boost? Yet the opposite seems to have happened, and the outlook for the UK is grim compared to other EU countries. Our growth rate is lower than that of the Eurozone, and the lowest in the G7.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a8028891.html

It's an utter mystery, as it's a brilliant idea, what can of possibly gone wrong?? ......

We embarked on a river trip without any paddles or a compass.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

How the hell they think we can deal with the Irish border issue until we know the outcome of the trade talks, I really don't know.

What on earth has the Irish border got to do with trade talks? I'm afraid you've lost me.

---------- Post added at 22:52 ---------- Previous post was at 22:50 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

Why are there so many problems/issues with Brexit? It's such a good well thought out way forward, that surely the mere thought of it will give our economy a massive boost? Yet the opposite seems to have happened, and the outlook for the UK is grim compared to other EU countries. Our growth rate is lower than that of the Eurozone, and the lowest in the G7.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a8028891.html

It's an utter mystery, as it's a brilliant idea, what can of possibly gone wrong?? ......

That's all Project Fear Mr K sorry Project Reality! Trouble was some people glibly believed what Farage and BoJo said without any supporting evidence.

---------- Post added at 22:55 ---------- Previous post was at 22:52 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

Maybe it's time for the people who led the Vote Leave campaign to tell us their ideas for all these problems they said wouldn't be issue instead of blaming people on the losing side who are now out of office anyway.

They wanted this, they're in charge, this is their responsbility. Suddenly Ireland is going to be a problem, as anyone would have guessed, and they're blaming everyone else. They've had a year and a half. Where is their answer?

The Vote Leave capaign's default answer is to blame the EU; anything more sophisticated than this should not be expected from them. They like power but not the responsibility and owership of problems that go with it.

Last time I checked, Vote Leave was a campaign. It ceased to be a campaign after 23rd June 2016.