Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth

I might be missing something, but I can't see how having a passport or a photo driving license etc will help if I sign the appropriate part of my post vote then hand it over to my local conservative party activist to fill in the rest on their way to the post box.

It was Labour party activists, and even a senior Labour MP who went around helping people fill in the forms. The Labour MP admitted it, after being found out.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I suspect that by introducing this policy, the Labour Party is more likely to benefit from extra votes.

It's the other way round OB as you well know ! . Those without passports, driving licences are likely to be from lower socio economic groups and more likely to vote Labour. That's what's really behind this. We need to increase people's participation in democracy not decrease it.

Suspect it will fail just like they tried to change election boundaries. More fair minded Tories, there are a handful, will oppose it. The whole Queens Speech is a waste of time and will get voted down.

---------- Post added at 15:31 ---------- Previous post was at 15:24 ----------

Originally Posted by nomadking

It was Labour party activists, and even a senior Labour MP who went around helping people fill in the forms. The Labour MP admitted it, after being found out.

Or the Tories who spent thousands in the 2015 campaign transporting activists to marginals, and not declaring the expenditure against election rules. The isolated fraud cases aren't all on one side.

You seem to see fraud everywhere, benefits, voting. Not a very high opinion of the riff raff have you !

What is going to happen is a load of people are going to go to the polls unaware of this new policy and be turned away. There will be public information campaigns but they won't reach everyone.

The attempts to process the applications for council provided photo-id cards will be expensive and error-prone with many people falling inbetween administrative gaps because the council will be missing various details on many of the applications because the bureaucracy is a mess and we don't have a central database of citizens. Besides given the messes over the EU Settlement Scheme and Windrush how many people do you think trust the Government on these matters? Want to go look at how many European Citizens entitled to vote were turned away at the last European election?

So come the first election with this new system we'll see scandals over the applications at first and then scandals over it's implementation on voting day. This is going to be an expensive and bureaucratic nightmare in the making to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Damien

What is going to happen is a load of people are going to go to the polls unaware of this new policy and be turned away. There will be public information campaigns but they won't reach everyone.

Absolutely inevitable.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Or...

There aren't many.

Occam's razor (rather than lots of hypothetical unevidenced guesses).

Before the ones that were exposed, were exposed, there were none. No matter what the level of fraud, there would have been a point in time, where it could said to be free of fraud.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Damien

The attempts to process the applications for council provided photo-id cards will be expensive and error-prone with many people falling inbetween administrative gaps because the council will be missing various details on many of the applications because the bureaucracy is a mess and we don't have a central database of citizens. Besides given the messes over the EU Settlement Scheme and Windrush how many people do you think trust the Government on these matters? Want to go look at how many European Citizens entitled to vote were turned away at the last European election?

Indeed peoples trust is very low now and given the unmitigated disaster over the EU Settlement Scheme and Windrush another mess up is totally inevitable.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Mr K

It's the other way round OB as you well know ! . Those without passports, driving licences are likely to be from lower socio economic groups and more likely to vote Labour. That's what's really behind this. We need to increase people's participation in democracy not decrease it.

Suspect it will fail just like they tried to change election boundaries. More fair minded Tories, there are a handful, will oppose it. The whole Queens Speech is a waste of time and will get voted down.

---------- Post added at 15:31 ---------- Previous post was at 15:24 ----------



Or the Tories who spent thousands in the 2015 campaign transporting activists to marginals, and not declaring the expenditure against election rules. The isolated fraud cases aren't all on one side.

You seem to see fraud everywhere, benefits, voting. Not a very high opinion of the riff raff have you !

There are multiple instances of Labour activists "helping" people fill out their voting forms. Can't be sure of the name of the Labour MP involved, but I think it was either Margaret Beckett or Patricia Hewitt. Then there was the £600,000 of illegal 3rd party donations to Labour, where of course nobody was prosecuted. Even Gordon Brown seemed to know it was going on, as he refused a potential donation because he knew it was dodgy.
Link

Since 2003 David Abrahams, a property developer in the north-east, has donated more than £600,000 to the Labour party through a series of intermediaries. He says he did this because he is "a very private person" and did not realise he was doing anything wrong.
Under the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000 the details of any donor making gifts through a third party must be declared and registered with the Electoral Commission - but this was not done in the case of Abrahams' donations.

"a very private person", who appeared on BBC2's Newsnight before the new rules came into force, and complained about them. He had attended a Labour party workshop about the new rules.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Paul

The only thing I can see this achiving is a much lower turnout.

Sorry, I was interrupted and didn’t fully explain myself. I also read that compulsory voting was being promoted, and this is what will, I believe, increase the Labour vote.

The ID thing is easily overcome.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Sorry, I was interrupted and didn’t fully explain myself. I also read that compulsory voting was being promoted, and this is what will, I believe, increase the Labour vote.

The ID thing is easily overcome.

Any proof of that as it has always been know that Conservative voters are more likely to turn out then Labour voters.

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

This would seem to be the resurrection of a national identity card scheme.

Some very quick checking shows
76% of population have a passport
33.6 million people have a drivers licence

It would appear to be nothing of the sort. The vast majority of people already have photographic ID of one kind or another and would not need a new dedicated voter ID card under this scheme. Anyone without a passport or a driving licence can get a voter ID document for the specific purpose of proving their eligibility to vote. A national identity card scheme differs fundamentally because it compels adults to obtain a card without any specific purpose in view.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Chris

It would appear to be nothing of the sort. The vast majority of people already have photographic ID of one kind or another and would not need a new dedicated voter ID card under this scheme. Anyone without a passport or a driving licence can get a voter ID document for the specific purpose of proving their eligibility to vote. A national identity card scheme differs fundamentally because it compels adults to obtain a card without any specific purpose in view.

I'd be willing to wager that this whilst this will initially be implemented in the way described above. Long term, it will probably keep being be expanded until such time as it transformed into a national identity card scheme.

It's a potential back door to eventually long term implement something that the government want...


I wonder how much a free document will cost to produce? and how secure/difficult to forge said document would be......

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

I'd be willing to wager that this whilst this will initially be implemented in the way described above. Long term, it will probably keep being be expanded until such time as it transformed into a national identity card scheme.

It's a potential back door to eventually long term implement something that the government want...


I wonder how much a free document will cost to produce? and how secure/difficult to forge said document would be......

I'd wager it won't be implemented, just like like id cards weren't, just like boundary changes weren't. Just the latest piece of electoral fiddling from the dark side...

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by denphone

Any proof of that as it has always been know that Conservative voters are more likely to turn out then Labour voters.

I know, that's why compulsory voting is more likely to get Labour voters out. I certainly don't see the need for photographic ID being a problem that cannot be overcome.

---------- Post added at 20:11 ---------- Previous post was at 20:10 ----------

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

I'd be willing to wager that this whilst this will initially be implemented in the way described above. Long term, it will probably keep being be expanded until such time as it transformed into a national identity card scheme.

It's a potential back door to eventually long term implement something that the government want...


I wonder how much a free document will cost to produce? and how secure/difficult to forge said document would be......

I would see absolutely no problem with compulsory ID cards.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I would see absolutely no problem with compulsory ID cards.

They were on the way until the Conservatives came to.power in 2010, and they scrapped it. Trust you'll be writing a snotty letter to them ?

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

I wonder how much a free document will cost to produce? and how secure/difficult to forge said document would be......

I also wonder how it'll be done? If is just providing a photo alongside your name in the electoral register? Do you need to prove it is indeed you when applying for the card and, if so, how?