Brexit - Page 258

Sephiroth · 06-07-2019, 17:54

I just want to remind the Remainers what this is all about.

First, I must distinguish between those who voted to remain in the EU but who accept the Referendum result. These then split into two: (1) Those who don't like no-deal, but if it must be, then so be it; (2) Those want to remain in the EU if no-deal is the only option.

Then there are those Remainers battling to thwart Brexit. These Remainers are the baddies in Parliament, who stood in the General Election on a leave manifesto and now want to renege on that.

Alongside this are the bleating Remainers who claim that the Leavers did not know what they were voting for. Well, of course they did know because of Project Fear which told them how bad it would be to leave the EU in the Remainers' opinion.

Now, we have reached this sorry position because of Mrs. May's gross incompetence and her inner love affair with the EU. A PM who had entered negotiation on the basis that default exit was our starting position and that we would consider any suggestions offered by the EU would have succeeded in bringing matters to an agreeable close.

The perfidy of our Parliamentarians exceeds that of Varadkar and Macron. A rump of Tory MPs are likely to vote against their party if Boris is PM and a vote of no confidence is called by Labour, who are just as perfidious because they are liars who are defying their own manifesto commitments just to get into power. Those renegade Tories have nothing to lose because they'll be deselected anyway and they know it.

Worse still is that these Remain MPs consider themselves to be an elite above the people who elected them and who gave them an instruction at the Referendum.

The UK has been reduced to a political farce by its own Parliament.

TheDaddy · 06-07-2019, 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I just want to remind the Remainers what this is all about.

First, I must distinguish between those who voted to remain in the EU but who accept the Referendum result. These then split into two: (1) Those who don't like no-deal, but if it must be, then so be it; (2) Those want to remain in the EU if no-deal is the only option.

Then there are those Remainers battling to thwart Brexit. These Remainers are the baddies in Parliament, who stood in the General Election on a leave manifesto and now want to renege on that.

Alongside this are the bleating Remainers who claim that the Leavers did not know what they were voting for. Well, of course they did know because of Project Fear which told them how bad it would be to leave the EU in the Remainers' opinion.

Now, we have reached this sorry position because of Mrs. May's gross incompetence and her inner love affair with the EU. A PM who had entered negotiation on the basis that default exit was our starting position and that we would consider any suggestions offered by the EU would have succeeded in bringing matters to an agreeable close.

The perfidy of our Parliamentarians exceeds that of Varadkar and Macron. A rump of Tory MPs are likely to vote against their party if Boris is PM and a vote of no confidence is called by Labour, who are just as perfidious because they are liars who are defying their own manifesto commitments just to get into power. Those renegade Tories have nothing to lose because they'll be deselected anyway and they know it.

Worse still is that these Remain MPs consider themselves to be an elite above the people who elected them and who gave them an instruction at the Referendum.

The UK has been reduced to a political farce by its own Parliament.

Couple of things jump out, why is it called project fear if you belived it and how can labour be bound by a rejected manifesto, they lost get over it

Sephiroth · 06-07-2019, 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Couple of things jump out, why is it called project fear if you belived it and how can labour be bound by a rejected manifesto, they lost get over it

I'm surprised at your Project Fear question. We all know that the Remain camp fed us with prophesies of doom if we leave the EU (at that stage without consideration of no-deal). People who voted Leave simply didn't believe the message of doom.

TheDaddy · 06-07-2019, 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I'm surprised at your Project Fear question. We all know that the Remain camp fed us with prophesies of doom if we leave the EU (at that stage without consideration of no-deal). People who voted Leave simply didn't believe the message of doom.

Yet you say they were aware of how bad it was going to be because project fear told them so but now you say they didn't believe it anyway, it's a very muddled summation, sounds like your trying to have cake and eat it

Sephiroth · 06-07-2019, 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Yet you say they were aware of how bad it was going to be because project fear told them so but now you say they didn't believe it anyway, it's a very muddled summation, sounds like your trying to have cake and eat it

Perhaps you misunderstood what I wrote:

Well, of course they did know because of Project Fear which told them how bad it would be to leave the EU in the Remainers' opinion.

It was the Remain campaign who believed in Project Fear; the Leave voters didn't believe the prophecies of doom.

pip08456 · 06-07-2019, 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Perhaps you misunderstood what I wrote:

Well, of course they did know because of Project Fear which told them how bad it would be to leave the EU in the Remainers' opinion.

It was the Remain campaign who believed in Project Fear; the Leave voters didn't believe the prophecies of doom.

We still don't believe those prophesies either Seph.

papa smurf · 06-07-2019, 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456

We still don't believe those prophesies either Seph.

They lost me at ww3

Pierre · 06-07-2019, 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K

We can't brag on democracy either. The next PM is being chosen by 0.2% of the population, some of whom have received more than one vote ! Way to go democracy UK !

Well when Brown took over no one got a vote on it. But we do get a say every 5 years and we got rid then, and Johnson or Hunt will be decided on next time around.

Quote:

As for the EU, the recent EU elections bases on a PR system is far more democratic than our first past the post, where depending on which constitutency you're in your vote is pointless.

Try moving the goal posts again as the EU win on democracy

Puppet MEPs that have no legislative power, whoop, whoop.

---------- Post added at 20:40 ---------- Previous post was at 20:38 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K

And our 'appointed' House of Lords ? We really are no better.

I agree, the 2nd chamber needs reform, but the 2nd chamber in our system has no real power.

They can delay and frustrate legislation but they can’t stop it.

TheDaddy · 06-07-2019, 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Perhaps you misunderstood what I wrote:

Well, of course they did know because of Project Fear which told them how bad it would be to leave the EU in the Remainers' opinion.

It was the Remain campaign who believed in Project Fear; the Leave voters didn't believe the prophecies of doom.

I'm clearly misunderstanding, so leavers knew what was ahead because they'd been told what to expect by someone they didn't believe but at the same time based on that lack of belief they still knew what they were voting for, is that really the gist of what you're saying, sounds like something the lib dems would stick on a t-shirt to me

Sephiroth · 06-07-2019, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

I'm clearly misunderstanding, so leavers knew what was ahead because they'd been told what to expect by someone they didn't believe but at the same time based on that lack of belief they still knew what they were voting for, is that really the gist of what you're saying, sounds like something the lib dems would stick on a t-shirt to me

Something needs sticking to you.

You appear to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the English language or you're just doing a wind-up. But just in case you are genuine:

The Remainers were prophets of doom; the Leavers didn't believe any of that and voted accordingly.

TheDaddy · 07-07-2019, 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

The Remainers were prophets of doom; the Leavers didn't believe any of that and voted accordingly.

But according to you they based their decision on what the remainers told them,.things they didn't believe in

Quote:

Leavers did not know what they were voting for. Well, of course they did know because of Project Fear which told them how bad it would be to leave the EU in the Remainers' opinion.

You can't have it both ways, although that is somewhat in the spirit of brexit admittedly, cake, eating it etc

Sephiroth · 07-07-2019, 07:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

But according to you they based their decision on what the remainers told them,.things they didn't believe in

You can't have it both ways, although that is somewhat in the spirit of brexit admittedly, cake, eating it etc

"... in the Remainers' opinion" governs what I've said.

One of the factors on which Leavers' decision was based was the prophecies of doom raised by the Remain camp. I suppose I could concede that some Leavers thought it was worth the price, and others, prolly the majority, simply did not believe the Project Fear prophecies.

Mr K · 07-07-2019, 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

"... in the Remainers' opinion" governs what I've said.

One of the factors on which Leavers' decision was based was the prophecies of doom raised by the Remain camp. I suppose I could concede that some Leavers thought it was worth the price, and others, prolly the majority, simply did not believe the Project Fear prophecies.

The prophecies might come true old chap we don't know yet. Brexit, as you may have noticed, hasn't happened. It might be worse. Bozza being PM no one would have dared to make part of Project Fear, as it would have been too far fetched and too depressing.

Angua · 07-07-2019, 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K

The prophecies might come true old chap we don't know yet. Brexit, as you may have noticed, hasn't happened. It might be worse. Bozza being PM no one would have dared to make part of Project Fear, as it would have been too far fetched and too depressing.

I have a dream that JohnsonB as PM will see what an impossibility Brexit is at the moment and just say stuff this and revoke Article 50.

pip08456 · 07-07-2019, 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angua

I have a dream that JohnsonB as PM will see what an impossibility Brexit is at the moment and just say stuff this and revoke Article 50.

By all means dream on!