Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[Sbudge]

Any Virgin Media folks (particularly in North London) may want to try setting their router to block access to Oix, Webwise and Phorm domains and then see what happens....

I did and straight away half a dozen well know sites started acting very badly. Unless I'm being denser than usual, that shouldn't happen!

Budge

[amateria]

Originally Posted by rogermevans

this bit looks good : Article 7 – Computer-related forgery

and : Article 8 – Computer-related fraud

"with fraudulent or dishonest intent of procuring, without right, an economic benefit for oneself or for another person."

I think copyright licensing comes in here, because the absence of one means that you are "without right".

[AlexanderHanff]

Wow I just had a comment on the DenyPhorm blog from the PR team inviting me to talk to Kent in a Skype call.

I certainly can't do it tonight as I am entirely too tired, but if I get chance over the next couple of days I might take them up on the offer. I have a lot of questions of my own, but if people want me to ask any questions on their behalf, let me know and I will try to get some answers.

Alexander Hanff

[popper]

Originally Posted by Sbudge

Any Virgin Media folks (particularly in North London) may want to try setting their router to block access to Oix, Webwise and Phorm domains and then see what happens....

I did and straight away half a dozen well know sites started acting very badly. Unless I'm being denser than usual, that shouldn't happen!

Budge

Sbudge

whats your UBR, use the connection button above or just click here
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/mi...?do=connection
remove the cust* bit we dont need to see that.

if there is something going on on your UBR or its site, then others can also check it if their on that section,and rule out a false positive or confirm the same bad activity, what is this activity doing to the pages exactly?

---------- Post added at 20:58 ---------- Previous post was at 20:53 ----------

name and business address of that QC for starters....

[amateria]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff

Wow I just had a comment on the DenyPhorm blog from the PR team inviting me to talk to Kent in a Skype call.

I certainly can't do it tonight as I am entirely too tired, but if I get chance over the next couple of days I might take them up on the offer. I have a lot of questions of my own, but if people want me to ask any questions on their behalf, let me know and I will try to get some answers.

Alexander Hanff

They must rate you (and so they should). He will know better to think he can persuade you - he will try and pump you for information about your intentions. I would try to give little away and do an immediate note of everything he and you say, as he may try to misquote you later (sorry if I'm teaching you to suck eggs).

Questions I'd like answers to:

- has he signed contracts with Virgin or BT yet
- which other ISPs is he talking to
- can he let us have a list of subscribers to OIX
- why does he think the Guardian backed away

[rogerdraig]

Originally Posted by amateria

"with fraudulent or dishonest intent of procuring, without right, an economic benefit for oneself or for another person."

I think copyright licensing comes in here, because the absence of one means that you are "without right".

i was thinking ( cant find the quote at sec will look in a bit if others don't find it first ) that some where it said that during the process applied by phorm they change the header or something to from thier site to imitate the site that was intercepted, personally if they dont have permision to do so that i would sat that was forgery

plus as they wont have it seems web sites permision ( nor mine lol ) then as they are doing it for to make money then the second one would kick in

i don't fully get the copy right thing all together but if that helps to good for it

[roadrunner69]

IMHO there are only two ways in which this massive invasion of our privacy will be beaten.
1. The legal path (probably our best bet)

2. The rejection of this system by enough ordinary internet users to make it financially unviable to the ISP's/phorm.
(difficult given the apathy of our current society, and that is something phorm must be counting on)

We must not stop trying to educate everyone, friends, family, colleges, MP's etc to this threat.
If it becomes a reality, it really will be goodbye to internet privacy for ever.

I would like to add my thanks and appreciation of the work into the legal side of this issue, particularly Alexander (are you really only one person?).

To Mr Giraffe and the other contributors to http://www.whyphormisbad.org/ this is bang on as regards informing the more technically challenged and it sets out all of the major points that affect your average user in a way that anyone can understand.

Thankyou

[rogerdraig]

Originally Posted by Sbudge

Any Virgin Media folks (particularly in North London) may want to try setting their router to block access to Oix, Webwise and Phorm domains and then see what happens....

I did and straight away half a dozen well know sites started acting very badly. Unless I'm being denser than usual, that shouldn't happen!

Budge

got a list there i could use

i know being lazy but this second bottle of red seems to have affected my head

[AlexanderHanff]

Originally Posted by roadrunner69

Alexander (are you really only one person?).

The world hopes so lol

Alexander Hanff

[Sbudge]

whats your UBR?

cable.ubr04.camd.blueyonder.co.uk

if there is something going on on your UBR or its site, then others can also check it if their on that section,and rule out a false positive or confirm the same bad activity, what is this activity doing to the pages exactly?

Uploading files; for example adding an attachment to a Hotmail email will give "Network Error" messages. Happens independent of Machine, OS, Browser etc etc. Occurs on a number of sites. The Phorm domains are the *only* ones in the Block list on the router (Netgear, up to date firmware).

Budge

[manxminx]

Hia Alexander, I've had a look at your blog at http://denyphorm.blogspot.com/ but can't find the Phorm reply you mention. Actually, there's nothing recent on that site. Am I looking in the wrong place?

Ali.

[popper]

http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2...ebwise-system/
"
15. Phorm | April 5th, 2008 at 18:11 UTC
Richard,
Many thanks for the report, it’s very detailed and has proved very helpful in dispelling confusion around the technology;we’re very pleased that you agreed to come in.

I’ve posted a response to your security question and will post later on http://blog.phorm.com/

Thanks too for providing clarity around the PII question on ukcrypto and for reiterating that our claim of not storing personal information is correct.

We eagerly await the A29 ruling on Monday and hope for a a positive outcome: IP addresses to be designated PII. We also hope for further measures to be put in place to limit timeframes for data storage.
Radha"

the A29?

"Gavin Jamie | April 5th, 2008 at 20:12 UTC
Server side phorm detector prototype now available to play with.
"
"
InPhormer


This is a simple example of a system that should detect the Phorm user tracking system.

It requires some cookies to be set. This is done here with javascript but could be set in any way. Javascript is used as it is quite simple to put into existing pages, but does of course depend on the user actualling having javascript enabled.

The page then loads an image which is actually a small piece of php code which determines what the image to show.

The code could probably be better - I am not really a programmer. The images could definitely be better! This is simply a proof of concept.

For instance iframes could be used instead of images. All code and images are placed in the public domain. See source of this page for the javascript and image tag.

The php code is here. The system uses the fact that the Phorm system will, as described here block a cookie called web wise.

Actually the system will still work if they let it through but change the value. It will fail if the name of the cookie changes.

An excercise for the reader could be to produce a bit of javascript code which retrieves the value of the webwise cookies before resetting it. A completely javascript phorm finder is also very feasible.

As Phorm is not active you can test the system by going to your browsers cookie setting now, finding the cookies from www.mythic-beasts.com and deleting the webwise one.

Now just load the image on its own.
Gavin Jamie - feedback at gpcontract.co.uk"

[mark777]

Popper : A29 ?

http://ec.europa.eu/justice_home/fsj...p/index_en.htm

I don't know, but I suspect it's the right area.

Probably somewhere in all the Euro-Guff, IP nos. will be confirmed as Personally Identifiable Information. Phorm, walking hand-in-hand with St. Francis, will support this.

Who needs a 4 bit IP no when you have your own 16 bit identifier?

--------

Q: How many Phorm bods does it take to change a light bulb?
A: None, they can see what you are doing without one.

[thebarron]

A worthwhile read in the Guardian today.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...iness.internet

[mark777]

Originally Posted by thebarron

A worthwhile read in the Guardian today.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...iness.internet

There is no bigger anti-smoker than an ex-smoker!

Lets hope the Gruniard/Observer take this up as a crusade, particularly as the Times bods seem to be up to their necks in it.

Anyone know if Private Eye has a view on Phorm, could be fun!

---------- Post added at 00:48 ---------- Previous post was at 00:35 ----------

Private Eye informed

http://www.inphormationdesk.org/

quoted as an initial resource. Nice site Portly_Giraffe, thankyou.