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The state benefits system mega-thread.
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Old 05-05-2019, 20:14   #2161
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf View Post
Please tell the Conservatives that.
And Labour..
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Old 06-05-2019, 08:55   #2162
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf View Post
Please tell the Conservatives that.
Well, it's Labour who are trying to weaponise these issues. They have voted against many of the changes that the Conservatives have brought in to help the less well off. Theresa May rattles through them most Prime Minister's Question Times in the House of Commons!
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Old 06-05-2019, 09:31   #2163
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Well, it's Labour who are trying to weaponise these issues. They have voted against many of the changes that the Conservatives have brought in to help the less well off. Theresa May rattles through them most Prime Minister's Question Times in the House of Commons!
What you mean like this.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...erable-hardest

And this.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ty-frank-field

And this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45824590

And this.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8603706.html

Hang on there is more....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...cuts-austerity

And more...

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk...80%99-benefits


l don't excuse Labour either as they were just as culpable for many things as well as the Conservatives for the savage benefit cuts and demonising of benefit claimants.

By the way OB take your partisan political colours off for once and you might just see the woods from the trees.
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Last edited by denphone; 06-05-2019 at 09:35.
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Old 06-05-2019, 10:04   #2164
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

Quote:
The self-employed lose out under rules in universal credit that assume a minimum income from self-employment, usually £1,187 a month. It means that 600,000 self-employed people will be worse off.
To stop those taking the mickey and dodging having to look for work.
Quote:
Families with more than two children suffer as a result of changes to the law that limits state support to two children. Under the tax credits system, payments are made for more than two children if they were born before 6 April 2017. As a result, 300,000 families will be worse off, losing an average of £40 a week each.
So nobody actually loses anything, they just don't gain as much as they would've.
Quote:
People deemed too ill to work or to prepare to work are likely to be better off or receive the same amounts.
Problem with that?


Frank Field complained that Universal Credit was going to be TOO generous.
Measuring anything against the "breadline"/poverty is totally and completely meaningless. That is the very reason it is used. If the price of a loaf of bread went up 100x overnight(think Venezuela), then there would be NO increase in the number defined in poverty. Whereas when the minimum wage goes up, the fictitious breadline also goes up. That INCREASES the number in "poverty". Those just above the previous poverty level are now suddenly defined as being in poverty. Their income hasn't gone down and the prices of anything also haven't gone up........yet. Just shows how ludicrous the measure is.


The notion of a single working age benefit(eg Universal Credit) was put forward by a Government report in 2009.
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Old 07-05-2019, 09:09   #2165
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone View Post
What you mean like this.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...erable-hardest

And this.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ty-frank-field

And this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45824590

And this.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8603706.html

Hang on there is more....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...cuts-austerity

And more...

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk...80%99-benefits


l don't excuse Labour either as they were just as culpable for many things as well as the Conservatives for the savage benefit cuts and demonising of benefit claimants.

By the way OB take your partisan political colours off for once and you might just see the woods from the trees.
These articles are almost exclusively about universal credit, which is designed to ensure that people are better off in work than out of work. There have been issues concerning implementation and of course the austerity cuts (due to Labour's mismanagement of the economy), but these will be over by 2020.

You fail to mention the other side of the equation, such as the implementation of the minimum living wage, bringing the lower paid out of tax altogether, etc, all of which Corbyn voted against, no doubt because he didn't want the Conservatives to look good.

I think it's you, Den, with respect, that needs to look at all the facts and not just the lefty view of them. People like me, who slant to the right of centre, do want to alleviate poverty as much as possible, but we can't spend money we don't have. Money tree politics is just childish.
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Old 07-05-2019, 09:32   #2166
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
These articles are almost exclusively about universal credit, which is designed to ensure that people are better off in work than out of work. There have been issues concerning implementation and of course the austerity cuts (due to Labour's mismanagement of the economy), but these will be over by 2020.
There many other articles out there about PIP and the complete chaos in a system that quite clearly is not fit for purpose.

Have a read of this and perhaps you might see past your blinkered views and you might actually actually learn something.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ility-benefits

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8894341.html

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/ne...rpool-16162733

---------- Post added at 09:25 ---------- Previous post was at 09:22 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
.

You fail to mention the other side of the equation, such as the implementation of the minimum living wage, bringing the lower paid out of tax altogether, etc, all of which Corbyn voted against, no doubt because he didn't want the Conservatives to look good.
l don't give two hoots about bloody Corbyn as bringing in the implementation of the minimum living wage is no bad thing IMO as there are many still below the poverty line don't you agree?.

---------- Post added at 09:30 ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post

I think it's you, Den, with respect, that needs to look at all the facts and not just the lefty view of them. People like me, who slant to the right of centre, do want to alleviate poverty as much as possible, but we can't spend money we don't have. Money tree politics is just childish.
Less of the moronic name calling OB as first of all l am no lefty as l am a moderate who wants fairness for everybody in society and not just for one favoured group of the country.

---------- Post added at 09:32 ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Money tree politics is just childish.
Strange that the current government seem to find that magical money tree for its own political ends several times over the past few years.
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Old 07-05-2019, 10:46   #2167
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

I should imagine a large number of complaints about PIP will be down to a total misunderstanding of how the new system operates. Eg Just being unable to bend down as if to use an oven, would've been eligible for lower rate care DLA. Under PIP, it would be just 2 pts towards the required 8pts for PIP standard rate daily living.


A big problem with the assessments is that an ability to do something once, briefly is treated as being able to perform it repeatedly throughout the day. Eg With something like osteoarthritis, you can manage things occasionally, but if you do it too often then the pain, swelling, and difficulties start to kick in a bit later on and last for a prolonged period. The assessment can't measure that.
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Old 07-05-2019, 17:33   #2168
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone View Post

Less of the moronic name calling OB as first of all l am no lefty as l am a moderate who wants fairness for everybody in society and not just for one favoured group of the country.
Steady on, old chap! It is news to me the you consider yourself a moderate. I must have been under a misapprehension, or maybe I misremembered, but did you not tell us on these very forums that you voted for that dangerous Marxist friend of terrorists, that nice Mr Corbyn, at the last election?

Now you can call that a moderate vote if you like, but to most of us, this is way left of centre. Have you now repented, perhaps?

I wasn't calling you names, just referring to the lefty references you had linked to in your post.

---------- Post added at 17:33 ---------- Previous post was at 17:28 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone View Post
Strange that the current government seem to find that magical money tree for its own political ends several times over the past few years.
The DUP arrangement is a perfectly sensible decision, given that the Conservatives don't have a majority. It has enabled them to get legislation through (apart from Brexit, that is).

If Labour were in the same position, no doubt they would do a deal with the SNP. That's how politics works, like it or not.

Last edited by OLD BOY; 07-05-2019 at 17:36.
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Old 07-05-2019, 17:51   #2169
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Steady on, old chap! It is news to me the you consider yourself a moderate. I must have been under a misapprehension, or maybe I misremembered, but did you not tell us on these very forums that you voted for that dangerous Marxist friend of terrorists, that nice Mr Corbyn, at the last election?
l don't advocate neither extreme left-wing politics nor extreme right-wing politics OB and that makes me a centrist moderate who wants a fairer society and public services that are funded properly among many other things that matter to me personally.

---------- Post added at 17:46 ---------- Previous post was at 17:44 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post

Now you can call that a moderate vote if you like, but to most of us, this is way left of centre. Have you now repented, perhaps?
Personally l don't care two hoots what you or others think!!!!

---------- Post added at 17:51 ---------- Previous post was at 17:46 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post

I wasn't calling you names, just referring to the lefty references you had linked to in your post..
Seeing that the main broadsheets are behind the paywall the main references of information are generally with websites like the BBC and Guardian.
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Old 07-05-2019, 18:06   #2170
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone View Post
What you mean like this.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...erable-hardest

And this.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ty-frank-field

And this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45824590

And this.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8603706.html

Hang on there is more....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...cuts-austerity

And more...

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk...80%99-benefits


l don't excuse Labour either as they were just as culpable for many things as well as the Conservatives for the savage benefit cuts and demonising of benefit claimants.

By the way OB take your partisan political colours off for once and you might just see the woods from the trees.
Den, you are a star! I salute you
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Old 07-05-2019, 18:37   #2171
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

I get a letter from the DWP on the 20th April (Saturday - Easter Weekend). Asking for me to attend an interview assessment (for ESA) on the 2nd of May. I asked to be assessed at home on the paperwork but they decided that I had to see them instead.

So had to wait till Tuesday (23rd April) to call them to ask why and they told me to get a letter from the GP outlining why I should be assessed at home and then send it to them for consideration. So I call the GP and even with a £30 charge for the letter it will take them 10-12 working days to write it....

I had to cancelled the assessment the day before I was due to attend as you are allowed to cancel once only. My wife picked the letter up from the GP today and now I hope that they get a copy of the letter before they send out another appointment that can not be altered or changed. What a crazy, stupid and stressful situation.

The GP letter has stated they've sent numerous letters on my behalf for ESA and PIP and they they are getting annoyed too. Seems like they don't take their information into account by the looks of it.
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Old 08-05-2019, 19:17   #2172
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peanut View Post
The GP letter has stated they've sent numerous letters on my behalf for ESA and PIP and they they are getting annoyed too. Seems like they don't take their information into account by the looks of it.
My daughter's psychiatrist sent a detailed letter to the PIP/DWP. I also added a copy to her claim form. But it wasn't even listed in the "received documents and evidence" list. So I sent another copy with the Mandatory Reconsideration form, and I believe it wasn't even looked at.

It will hit the fan when the Tribunal Judge reads it, just as it did at my son's Tribunal.

My daughter's MR took 6 weeks for a response, my son't came back return of post, just 3 days.
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Old 23-05-2019, 18:51   #2173
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

Anyone interested in the history of social security in the UK may wish to take a look at 'Workers or Shirkers' that was on BBC4 last night. It's not too dry either.

It starts with Outdoor Relief and Indoor Relief (workhouses) and examines the different views regarding whether there should be any help for those less fortunate and, if there should be, is there a belief that there is the deserving and the undeserving poor.

Interestingly, it shows that the different views and concerns of yesteryear were the same then as they are today!
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Old 23-05-2019, 18:59   #2174
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

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Originally Posted by RichardCoulter View Post
Anyone interested in the history of social security in the UK may wish to take a look at 'Workers or Shirkers' that was on BBC4 last night. It's not too dry either.

It starts with Outdoor Relief and Indoor Relief (workhouses) and examines the different views regarding whether there should be any help for those less fortunate and, if there should be, is there a belief that there is the deserving and the undeserving poor.

Interestingly, it shows that the different views and concerns of yesteryear were the same then as they are today!
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Old 23-05-2019, 19:47   #2175
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

The Tribunal sytem has responded to say that my daughter is on a waiting list for her tribunal for DLA to PIP.
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