Home News Forum Articles
  Welcome back Join CF
You are here You are here: Home | Forum | The state benefits system mega-thread.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most of the discussions, articles and other free features. By joining our Virgin Media community you will have full access to all discussions, be able to view and post threads, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own images/photos, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please join our community today.


Welcome to Cable Forum
Go Back   Cable Forum > General Discussion > Current Affairs

The state benefits system mega-thread.
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-03-2019, 19:51   #2071
richard s
cf.mega poster
 
richard s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Near France
Services: Tivo XL 150mb broadband L phone
Posts: 1,708
richard s is the helpful onerichard s is the helpful onerichard s is the helpful onerichard s is the helpful onerichard s is the helpful onerichard s is the helpful onerichard s is the helpful onerichard s is the helpful onerichard s is the helpful onerichard s is the helpful onerichard s is the helpful onerichard s is the helpful onerichard s is the helpful onerichard s is the helpful onerichard s is the helpful onerichard s is the helpful onerichard s is the helpful one
Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Manna from heaven wouldn't satisfy you if it was handed over by a Conservative, richard.

Not being religious or a Tory or Labour or Liberal voter either, damn does not leave a lot does it.
__________________
AND SO THE BO JO CIRCUS BEGINS
richard s is offline   Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Old 06-03-2019, 20:16   #2072
jfman
Architect of Ideas
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,415
jfman has reached the bronze age
jfman has reached the bronze age
Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Even the good news fails to be greeted by you, jfman!
It’s hardly good news that the benefit system is being skewed away from the principle of supporting who is the most in need.
jfman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2019, 12:07   #2073
Taf
cf.mega poster
 
Taf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Kairdiff-by-the-sea
Age: 63
Services: TVXL BBXL Superhub 2ac (wired) 1Tb Tivo
Posts: 8,275
Taf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny star
Taf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny star
Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
It’s hardly good news that the benefit system is being skewed away from the principle of supporting who is the most in need.
And there is the phrase behind it all, repeated over and over by Cameron.

"Most in need".

They are taking away aid for those "less in need" to give to those "most in need".

But who sets the levels of need? And does that level change?

To get the highest level of PIP Mobility (and therefore the offer of swapping that payment for a basic car) you need 12 points. So that means either....

Can stand and then move more than 1 metre but no more than 20 metres, either aided or unaided.

OR

Cannot, either aided or unaided, – (i) stand; or (ii) move more than 1 metre.

So loads of people have had to hand back their Mobility cars....
Taf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2019, 17:53   #2074
RichardCoulter
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,322
RichardCoulter has disabled reputation
Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf View Post
And there is the phrase behind it all, repeated over and over by Cameron.

"Most in need".

They are taking away aid for those "less in need" to give to those "most in need".

But who sets the levels of need? And does that level change?

To get the highest level of PIP Mobility (and therefore the offer of swapping that payment for a basic car) you need 12 points. So that means either....

Can stand and then move more than 1 metre but no more than 20 metres, either aided or unaided.

OR

Cannot, either aided or unaided, – (i) stand; or (ii) move more than 1 metre.

So loads of people have had to hand back their Mobility cars....
Yup, they changed the goalposts from DLA and then proclaimed how many people were getting help that didn't need it.
RichardCoulter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2019, 19:18   #2075
OLD BOY
Experience is everything
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
Services: 2 V6 boxes; Full House; Now TV, Amazon and Netflix; VM broadband and landline
Posts: 9,523
OLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze array
OLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze arrayOLD BOY has a bronze array
Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
It’s hardly good news that the benefit system is being skewed away from the principle of supporting who is the most in need.
Are you actually aware of what some pensioners have to live on?
OLD BOY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2019, 19:27   #2076
heero_yuy
Perfect Soldier
 
heero_yuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Worthing West Sussex
Age: 62
Services: VM 70M SHUB thingy in modem mode XL TV VboxHD Sony Bravia smart TV and M phone
Posts: 15,322
heero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny stars
heero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny stars
Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

Seems to me that there are any number of claimants on more than average income that are draining the system of funds needed by the genuinely needy.

Something has to change so that the poorest in our society get the benefits that they actually need as opposed to those that see them as some kind of "top up" right for the luxuries in life.

How many times do I see the huge 4x4s and people carriers pull into the disabled bays at the local carvery to see the occupants leap gazelle like into the restaurant for a meal.
__________________
History is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.
However history will change with my coronation - Mariemaia Kushrenada
heero_yuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2019, 19:42   #2077
denphone
Still alive and fighting
 
denphone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In the land of beyond and beyond.
Services: XL BB, 2 V6 boxes , XL TV.
Posts: 51,122
denphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver bling
denphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver bling
Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Are you actually aware of what some pensioners have to live on?
It all depends what part of the country you are talking about as some pensioners have a fair bit of disposable income while others struggle to make ends meet.
__________________
“The only lesson you can learn from history is that it repeats itself”
denphone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2019, 20:44   #2078
Hugh
Hic Sunt Dracones
Cable Forum Team
 
Hugh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 62
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 33,138
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy View Post
Seems to me that there are any number of claimants on more than average income that are draining the system of funds needed by the genuinely needy.

Something has to change so that the poorest in our society get the benefits that they actually need as opposed to those that see them as some kind of "top up" right for the luxuries in life.

How many times do I see the huge 4x4s and people carriers pull into the disabled bays at the local carvery to see the occupants leap gazelle like into the restaurant for a meal.
That may have been me and my family, taking my 90 year old mother-in-law (who shuffles very slowly) to Sunday dinner - strangely enough, if she is in the car with us, we are allowed to park using her Blue Badge...
__________________
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
Hugh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2019, 20:47   #2079
jfman
Architect of Ideas
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,415
jfman has reached the bronze age
jfman has reached the bronze age
Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Are you actually aware of what some pensioners have to live on?
They have at least the minimum income as guaranteed by the guarantee element of pension credit and the associated passported benefits. PIP income is disregarded as part of this.

A disabled individual of working age doesn’t receive this and has to live on much less. Equally someone just over state pension age no longer qualifies for the mobility element of PIP. So you could have two individuals born on the exact same day, with the exact same medical conditions affecting their day to day lives to the exact same extent and one would retain PIP for life and the other never qualify based on the onset date of their condition.

Last edited by jfman; 07-03-2019 at 21:00.
jfman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2019, 21:04   #2080
nomadking
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Northampton
Services: Virgin Media TV&BB 200Mb Tivo STB
Posts: 4,915
nomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appeal
nomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appeal
Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
They have at least the minimum income as guaranteed by the guarantee element of pension credit and the associated passported benefits. PIP income is disregarded as part of this.

A disabled individual of working age doesn’t receive this and has to live on much less. Equally someone just over state pension age no longer qualifies for the mobility element of PIP. So you could have two individuals born on the exact same day, with the exact same medical conditions affecting their day to day lives to the exact same extent and one would retain PIP for life and the other never qualify based on the onset date of their condition.
Any current DLA/PIP entitlement when you reach pension age, continues afterwards.


Not sure what figure you're using for disabled pensioners, but the working age amount can easily add up. Eg ESA support group, plus PIP standard rate daily living, and enhanced mobility clocks up around £1,300/month. Then add housing benefit and council tax reduction.
nomadking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2019, 21:09   #2081
jfman
Architect of Ideas
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,415
jfman has reached the bronze age
jfman has reached the bronze age
Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
Any current DLA/PIP entitlement when you reach pension age, continues afterwards.
That’s my point. Someone aged 67 who has their conditions deteriorate after state pension age wouldn’t qualify, but someone who qualified for PIP when they were 64 could retain it for life. That reads inherently unfair.

Quote:
Not sure what figure you're using for disabled pensioners, but the working age amount can easily add up. Eg ESA support group, plus PIP standard rate daily living, and enhanced mobility clocks up around £1,300/month. Then add housing benefit and council tax reduction.
In all cases pension credit plus add ons exceeds ESA/Universal Credit plus add ons.

Last edited by jfman; 07-03-2019 at 21:15.
jfman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2019, 21:49   #2082
nomadking
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Northampton
Services: Virgin Media TV&BB 200Mb Tivo STB
Posts: 4,915
nomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appeal
nomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appealnomadking has a bronzed appeal
Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
That’s my point. Someone aged 67 who has their conditions deteriorate after state pension age wouldn’t qualify, but someone who qualified for PIP when they were 64 could retain it for life. That reads inherently unfair.

In all cases pension credit plus add ons exceeds ESA/Universal Credit plus add ons.
Same post-pension ages rules applied for DLA.



Attendance Allowance is there for care needs.
Quote:
Attendance Allowance helps with extra costs if you have a disability severe enough that you need someone to help look after you.
It’s paid at 2 different rates and how much you get depends on the level of care that you need because of your disability.
...
The other benefits you get can increase if you get Attendance Allowance.
Quote:
You could get extra Pension Credit, Housing Benefit or Council Tax Reduction if you get Attendance Allowance - check with the helpline or office dealing with your benefit.
nomadking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2019, 21:56   #2083
jfman
Architect of Ideas
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,415
jfman has reached the bronze age
jfman has reached the bronze age
Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

I don’t really know why you’ve quoted my post.

The fact the same rules applied to DLA doesn’t make the system “fairer”. Attendance allowance does exist but is a lower rate than both components of PIP. My original statements on this matter hold true.
jfman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2019, 22:39   #2084
RichardCoulter
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,322
RichardCoulter has disabled reputation
Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

At one time, there was only two sets of benefits for everyone- Mobility Allowance and Attendance Allowance.

Then they introduced DLA for everyone under pension age. They introduced a new lower payment for people with milder disabilities (which was scrapped when PIP was introduced). At the same time they scrapped Mobility Allowance for those not already on it after pension age.

I found it very odd to take away help with mobility for those with mobility problems arising after pension age as old age is often the time that most people become disabled as the body begins to wear out.

---------- Post added at 22:39 ---------- Previous post was at 22:35 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy View Post
Seems to me that there are any number of claimants on more than average income that are draining the system of funds needed by the genuinely needy.

Something has to change so that the poorest in our society get the benefits that they actually need as opposed to those that see them as some kind of "top up" right for the luxuries in life.

How many times do I see the huge 4x4s and people carriers pull into the disabled bays at the local carvery to see the occupants leap gazelle like into the restaurant for a meal.
People often equate being disabled with problems walking. This isn't always the case, the person you saw might have had something like terminal cancer before it had really taken hold or an invisible disability like a mental health issue.
RichardCoulter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2019, 22:54   #2085
jfman
Architect of Ideas
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,415
jfman has reached the bronze age
jfman has reached the bronze age
Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

You’ve answered your own question: “most people become disabled as the body begins to wear out”. The costs involved would be astronomical to a group that’s already a significant spend from the public purse in pension payments. Before someone jumps in that they paid in there’s no side pot waiting to pay out pensions - it comes from the taxpayers of today.
jfman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:34.


Server: xenon.zmnt.net
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.