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Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
View Poll Results: Will you be opting out of the Virgin Ad Deal?
Yes, Definitely. 958 95.51%
No, I am quite happy to share my surfing habits with anyone. 45 4.49%
Voters: 1003. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 15-05-2008, 13:54   #6661
Phormic Acid
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jelv View Post
Well if there is a vacuum to be filled do as I've done and help them fill it (you can post comments on that site without registering).
It was late; I could only manage two of my own sentences in that post. Trying to prove a negative is hard. We only know the system hasn’t gone live, because we’re closely following the situation. I’ve thought of something reasonable to say now.
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Old 15-05-2008, 14:15   #6662
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by basa View Post
Your majority internet punter won’t have a clue and will be sucked into any opt-in, EULA or change in T&Cs to allow this crap with the seductive promise of a 'safer surfing experience'.
.. and this is the biggest problem I think ...

I've mentioned Phorm to lots of folk, and as much as I try to explain it, they just don't (or won't) understand .. 'I use a ad-blocker so it won't affect me' is a common response .. completely missing the point, very frustrating!!
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Old 15-05-2008, 14:17   #6663
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digbert View Post
I heartily agree with that.

I don't know if you have kept any logs from bt.broadband.support from last June/July when people were complaining that they were being throttled on port 80. My own tests showed downloads, ftp etc at 6700kps but browsing and anything else on port 80 110kbps. Support seemed to meet a brick wall in obtaining answers and reported that everyone that complained was a heavy downloader. The problem then seemed to fade away.

Was that caused by the Phorm trials, I do hope so. It would give BT a face saving let out.
got a hdd full of logs of that, I took out my c: hdd cos i thought i had a virus, after ringing help desk and getting all sorts of answers, l formatted twice only for it to still act all funny and redirect unknown ip, which I know what it was now, so replaced the hdds in the end then went on hols never seen it again.
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Old 15-05-2008, 14:22   #6664
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phormic Acid View Post
Unfortunately, the Internet abhors a vacuum and is starting to fill that vacuum with guff. For example, look at the article Your Privacy for Sale: Internet Providers Cash In.
In fact it is already being used by three of the biggest Internet Service Providers in the UK … BT, Talk Talk and Virgin Media are currently using this software…
The author has just responded in the comments section.


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Old 15-05-2008, 14:34   #6665
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

look at http://blog.iwr.co.uk/2008/05/behaviour-model.html

it details what one of the phorm execs has in the way of planned mission creap
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Old 15-05-2008, 14:49   #6666
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

that last bit sounds like censorship.
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Old 15-05-2008, 14:56   #6667
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

yep, if my reading is correct it will be "the web according to your isp and phorm"
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Old 15-05-2008, 15:01   #6668
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

more bad PR then for them.
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Old 15-05-2008, 15:10   #6669
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

All your base are belong to us


 
Old 15-05-2008, 15:55   #6670
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Over on BadPhorm a couple of weeks ago they were discussing the issue of how BT Retail (the ISP arm of BT) could possible implement a cookie-free solution to the Webwise opt-in/not opt-in dilemma.

They are basically pointing out that without using DPI, without using cookies, and without access to the BT Wholesale part of the network (forbidden them because of competition rules about the different arms of BT) they have a major problem on their hands.

The guys posting are network engineers with experience of the BT network and will be known to regular posters here.

http://www.badphorm.co.uk/e107_plugi...26.0#post_5235

Has this been chased up by anyone here?

I've just sent off an email to BT about it and posted over on Beta forums.
I don't remember it being discussed here.
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Old 15-05-2008, 17:30   #6671
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Shares back to 1,482.50

http://finance.google.co.uk/finance?q=PHRM

Looks like the imminent trial rumour or whatever it was that jacked them up to 1800.00 last Friday turned out to be more BS...
 
Old 15-05-2008, 17:35   #6672
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Tired of waiting around so ive typed up a new and improved version of the BT Webwise system.

Feel free to copy, laugh and basicly enjoy the read, satire comes as standard, till i can work out the monkey angle.

This is a copy of the BT Webwise FAQ from the BT Webwise homepage

About BT Webwise

1. What is BT Webwise?


BT Webwise is a free service that effectively profiles everything you do on the internet, the cost to the end user is nill but conversely so is the benifit.
It is our effort to watch you in the bathroom whilst offering a thinly veiled guise as "MAKAN INTRANETZ MOAR SAFAR."

2. Do I need to download any software to use BT Webwise?

NO! Its already connected to your line and therefore always on, we will however find it usefull in the future to upload software we feel will benifit us to your computer in the future, the future of course being when all this furor calms down.

3. Do I have to have a PC to use BT Webwise?

ANYTHING with a web browser will be fine for us to snoop on, your kids PSP isnt even safe from our watchfull eyes, meaning your child will be safer from the rampant paedophiles that roam the internet and set up fake sites to harvest their data. (any paedophiles interested in gaining this information can now easily telephone our Russian Data Desk in Roystov where our highly trained team will be willing to help on 07 485 7026714)

4. Will this disrupt my service or make browsing slower?

Right now your connection routes almost directly to the webpage you click on, with this new system we will redirect your connection 3 times before transferring you through to your desired page. Thankfully our investors can only compute numbers with a £ before them so we can convince them that it will be faster for "marketability" reasons.

5. Can I use any web browser with BT Webwise?

BT Webwise works with most major browsers, including Internet Explorer, Firefox, Netscape and Opera. Safari is not supported by the BT Webwise (YET but give us time to get over the legal hurdles and we will develop the system more cohesively) system. BT Webwise has been tested and proven to work with the following:

Internet Explorer 5.5, 6.0, 7.0
Firefox 1.0, 1.5, 2.0
Opera 7.54, 8.54, 9.0
Other browsers are a complete unknown, IF YOUR BROWSER FAILS TO CONNECT TO THE INTERNET PLEASE CONTANCT SUPPORT VIA OUR FRIENDLY SUPPORT WEBPAGE AT HTTP://BTWEBWISE.COM/SUPPORT-MY-BROKEN-BROWSER.HTM

6. Which parts of BT are considering deploying BT Webwise?

BT Retail Consumer broadband initialy
BT Business broadband will be "Supported" just as soon as we figure out all the angles on this legal fiasco, see businessmen make more money than you retail folks and could actually afford to prevent the masterplan... ehem Webwise.
BT Wholesale is planned for summer 2009, if your wholesale company doesnt like it, screw them we have legitimate reason to require the funds to fix "Last mile connections"

7. How do you know that your customers want BT Webwise?

We carried out thorough research amongst the dumbest people we could find at the local bingo hall, we asked questions such as "Do you know what the internet is?" and if answered NO we proceeded to the next round by asking "do you like scones?" from this we derived our frankly concrete foolproof data.

8. When will you be trialling BT Webwise? And can you give any details?
BT plans technical trials of BT Webwise in April 2008. We will be inviting around 10,000 BT broadband customers to take part in the trial. The trial involves only BT Retail consumer broadband customers; Our business clients are busy people who wouldnt have time to respond to an invite, so we will test the product on them covertly much like we did on Retail costomers previously.


Privacy

9. How does BT Webwise match what I do with adverts?

We dont want to bore you people with technical details, suffice it to say we basicly monitor your connection through a machine which places a "random identifier" on your computer, then it matches this number with everything you do and sends all this to China.
for the record PM Gordon Browns UID is fNNlTAHYR3GkVCzpJf3oIw|| and we now know he has some very niche market fetishes, weve seen the pages Gordy you naughty boy

10. Is BT selling customer data?

We pass on your details to our trusted partner Phorm for a fee, this is then passed on for a price to those it sees fit.

11. Is what you are doing legal?
Legal is such a relative term, a better question would be "is what we are doing likely to generate enough money not to really care? in which case the answer is YES! we are vaguely aware of the legal issues surrounding this technology and will where possable strive to fully ignore these issues as best we can.

12. What is the relationship between BT Webwise, BT's current policy for BT Yahoo customers and the current EU/UK data protection legislation?

The way in which we view data is compliant with our amended privacy policy and EU/UK data- protection legislation. The Information Commissioner has been kept fully informed about BT Webwise, as a side note the ICO also likes "Scones" and is very much a fan of "Bingo." So much so that most of our "Transparent" discussions have tended to completely avoid any issues that would make stakeholders nervous.

13. Can't the anonymisation process be reversed?

No. random computer generated numbers are long and drawn out and as previously explained the only mathmatical ability we posess only works if you add a £ beforehand, it is however highly likely that people external to our company could and probably will crack the cypher and exploit you in unthinkable ways, this is however outwith our control

14. What happens if I don't take or opt out of the BT Webwise service?

We dont make money off your data and our shareholders will be on our case to make the materplan.. ehem Webwise work.
What exactly will happen is entierly unknown, you may or may not be able to connect to the internet (in which case refer to the browser malfunction subect covered on point 5) either way, your not making us money so your therefore "Low Priority" customers.
Wether or not your data will still be monitored is beside the point in this issue, didnt you hear us at the begining? WE MAKE NO MONIES FROM YOU, degraded performance comes as standard to freeloaders.

15. How are BT subscribers' usage details collected?

The system places a "Random number" on your commputer, this is used to destinguish you from all the other battery farmed... ehem Valued users on the system.

We then collect all the things your doing on the internet, from your online purchases, (Jaqui Smith has frequent flyer points at a well known bondage equipment retailer, her "Dungeon" must be legendary in size from the sheer magnitute of purchases) Right down to your bank details and credit card details.

This is then sent to Phorm where they target you with adverts likely to suit your browsing habits, White power Extremists are likely to see adverts based on keywords they comonly use, this will likely infuriate a large number of radical extremist groups, but alas it will improve our bottom line so who cares?

16. Could this system be useful for tracking illegal online activity, etc, through browsing behaviour?

This is a tricky question, i mean certain government bodies can count numbers not prefixed with a £ so they may have a way to locate individual customers.
We however will not report you for trying to purchase "Thermal Nuclear Armaments" or indeed "Weapons of Mass Destruction." You can still purchase your Ricin Gas ingredients with confidence.

17. Why does BT Webwise use cookies?

Because a large blue furry muppet visited us in a dream and told us to, its also the easiest way of confusing people into believing that we cant actualy track individual users, so far its working so fingers crossed no one busts this wide open.

18. Does remaining opted out depend on the continued presence of an opt-out cookie on the user computer? What happens if I delete the cookie?


You can opt out in 2 ways.

1. Visit our page and turn this permanently off, we dont quite understand how to get this feature to work so lets just say it will go active when the system is launched

2. You can block webwise from getting to your machine, this could result in a broken service especialy if you "Tinker with hacker HOSTS file gubbins." again we'll provide details as we figure them out.

19. Isn't that a pain in the neck?

Yes, but like we should kare about your freeloading ass, we dont make any money via advertising from opted out users so will likely find ways of making money in the near future by selling on data as soon as we've got a decent legal team to make a fool proof terms and conditions.

20. What if the BT Webwise opt-out cookie is deleted by an antispyware utility? Will this mean that a customer gets opted in?

Of course, however Phorm is "in discussions" with Antivirus/Spyware vendors, however we know Kent and how he conducts himself at these gigs so the outcome is unlikely, couple this with the fact that major anti-virus/spyware vendors also know Kent from his companies "Colorful" previous history, discussions are liekly to fall on deaf ears.

21. Is my data still viewed when I am not participating?

we will see as much detail as we see with decent profit generating folk.
However we wont be able to target you with specific ad's from partner websites.

22. Are you considering changing your terms and conditions in a fine print in an email to customers (knowing well that most people will ignore it) and suddenly start peeking at every page I visit?

We will communicate with everyone "DURING THE TRIAL" after its been tested however, we may just slip in a clause or twelve to cover ourselves.

23. What are the changes in the terms and conditions?

A new paragraph (paragraph 18) will be added, "regardless of your preference for Scones or indeed Bingo" you fully agree to deliver us "POWER OF ATTOURNEY" and have complete control over your data.

24. Exactly what personally-identifiable information passes from my computer to a third party with BT Webwise?

Absoloutly none, ask AOL they fully agree having experience with a past debacle.
in this case the term absoloutly none, really infers absoloutly EVERYTHING please dont be alarmed


25. How do I permanently stop any of my personal data (which includes the sites I visit) being passed to a third party?

Switch to another IS... I MEAN NO WAIT... UM... KENT YOU ASSHAT YOU TOLD ME IT WOULDNT COME TO THIS!
UM... yes, I AM A FISH! there! you like scones and bingo and im a fish! see? its simple, ramble on enough and people forget the original point of a question and therefore you can sidestep the entire argument.

26. What information does BT Webwise collect about browsing behaviour?

Everything, WE CAN SEE THE ENTIRE INTERNET, in the words of the executive officer.
This is good, dont believe otherwise, any naysayers are trying to confuse you!
We have your best interests at heart, right below our desire for money.

27. Does BT Webwise store a customer's IP address?

Not as such.

28. What's to stop a rogue employee of BT or Phorm collecting the data and selling it?

Nothing, but its far more interesting to speculate on the Chinese and Russians in this case, blame can easily be shifted.

29. Do you collect any information that can identify me by name, address or any other personally-identifying information?

Nah.. well i mean yes but the answer is no.

30. How does BT Webwise make sure that it does not collect personally-identifiable information?
This is a good question and due to the extensive ways in which this is prevented we could write an entire 10k page document on the subject.

Bear in mind that when we attempted to get the monkies to sit at the typewriter and repeat "dear god not this question again" one of our employees lost a finger, another an eye and the monkies blatantly refused to cooperate, as such no such lengthy document exists.

31. What parties in the equation get the raw information about subscribers' activity?

Purely external devious, cunning, criminals get the raw data, this is of course outside the scope of our control.

32. Will you use 'collective marketing' information, such as what advertising appears to be the most popular at particular times?

DAMN THATS A GOOD QUESTION, can people actualy do this? you mean people will pay us to do this?
Sweet, then the answer is "Unclear please ask later" *SHAKE*SHAKE*SHAKE um.. "Outlook is good."
Man these 8Balls are hoot.

33. Can the service access private e-mails, webmails and other personal identifying information I enter into web forms?

Well of course, thats where the best gritty details lie, of course our official stance is "NO" and again we could have written a document stating how this was possable but the monkies acted up again and actualy ate the paper and several keys from the typewriters.
I was hoping to sell the complete works of shakespear on ebay but it looks like i lucked out again.

34. If I type a postal address into a form, is that data passed on by BT to Phorm or one of their partners?

GOD DAMNED MONKIES they just refuse to cooperate, maybe trade in chimps for orangutans, they love Scones right?
Again the answer is "NO" cough... how we go about this is very technical and boring.

35. What is BT Webwise doing about password-protected areas of websites?

Desperately trying to figure a way to utilise SSL data in some meaningful way, untill such times as this is a possability the answer is NO! unless of course its an unsecure website, in which case the answer is still no however we dont really know how to implement this.

36. If Phorm/Webwise doesn't capture form data, how does it collect search engine queries?

Um well, again orangutans are very volitile creatures, you would think with the abundance of ginger fur and a face that looks like a burst inner tube they would have a sense of humour... YOU WOULD BE WRONG as several of my coworkers will attest to.

We really need to solve this monkey problem because these long documents wont write themselves.

37. When will the Phorm software source code that is to be inserted into BT Webwise hardware on BT's network be independently audited/inspected, and by whom?

We have an "inhouse branch" called BT Security working feverently on the source code, Phorm have made assurances that it will be available to audit by external parties and that thay should "PUBLISH OR BE DAMNED" its a good phrase, but apparently nothing more than a phrase.

38. How long is any/all user data stored by Webwise/Phorm software on your Webwise/Phorm servers.

Well thats entirely open to speculation, if you mean the actual data then tis halflife is a couple of milliseconds (read an eternity in computer cycles) and as for the DEBUG data, well lets just move on shall we?

About BT Webwise Anti-fraud feature

39. How does BT Webwise help protect customers against online fraud?


By doing the same as any modern browser, only we make money from it! IN YOUR FACE BILLY GATES! nah nah nah i bet you wish you had though of it first.

40. How does the anti-fraud feature work?

Well we maintain a database of sites where hapless users have been previously "PWNED" your connection is halted whilst we check through our extensive list of blacklisted sites. Depending on the size it could take you a fortnight of waiting before our system parses the million long plain text list before connecting you.

Dont worry, your connection is important to us (as this gives us money) your sanity however is surplus to requirments.

Bear in mind that this list of sites is not extensive, new sites come online every day and as such you will most likely still be had by devious miscreants.
if you find yourself "up a creek without ample propulsion" then please report this to http://btwebwise.com/halp-ive-been-p...ershnitzel.htm
Where we will update our list (as soon as those god damned filthy apes tow the line)

41. I already have anti-virus and anti-spam software installed. Why do I need additional security from BT Webwise?

Good for you, if i can just refer you to stare at this dot > . < for the next ten minuites so that we can repair the huge gaping holes in our thinly veiled guise.

42. Why doesn't BT just block fraudulent sites?

Warning is better than blocking at this point, however this is something that will be looked into in the future, just as soon as we can figure out how to clasify "Unsavory" content as Phishing sites.
Currently in talks with China as they seem to be clued up on this technique.

43. Can legitimate sites be accidentally listed by BT Webwise?

Yes but we hope that this doesnt happen untill we have our collective asses covered legaly.

44. Will BT Webwise stop all fraudulent sites?

LOL NO, are you stupid? wait i mean um... damn.
If i may refer your gazing eye to this here smoke machine and well look as some of these rotating mirrors! arent they lovely? well apart from the apes greasy pawprints and the streaks.

45. My web browser already provides anti-fraud protection. Will this work with BT Webwise?

we will either complement each other, entirely block the internet from working, or set your house on fire from a "division by zero error" the outcome is unclear at this point.

About BT Webwise relevant advertising

46. How does BT Webwise's relevant advertising feature work?


We effectively steal websites content in order to generate a list of words that may interest you.

This is then fed in to a big box and linked to your cookie, when you browse a site that uses our technology we will replace the adverts on that page with ones that closely fit into these phrases.

What Neo-nazi wouldnt love adverts about gaining tickets to the gay parade?

47. Does it matter which ads I see?

Course it does, i mean if your unlikely to click on our junk then we wont generate nearly as much money.

Imagine a world where you see adverts for various Scones and pasrty products and not just bingo but also lotto! it will be a revoloution and completely expand your horizons.

48. Will BT Webwise change the ads I see when using BT Vision?

Not yet but we have boffins working day and night under the watchfull gaze of the chimpanzees who proved to agressive to be of use as clerks and therefore got promoted to "BT Security."

49. Does BT have any say on nature or content of the adverts that are shown or what companies Phorm is doing business with? Does BT Webwise allow campaigns related to adult or illegal activities?

No, we only act as a middle man to the wider system.
We will not allow advertising in the following categories:

* tobacco
* drugs
* alcohol
* pornography
* gambling (except National Lottery)
* UK political parties.

Untill of course they pony up and give us some real source of income.

50. How can I check whether BT Webwise is on or off?

simply visit http://btwebwise.com/wtf-is-going-on-in-here-now.html and you can click on or off.
It will deploy a cookie which will keep opting you in should it become deleted or expire.

*continued due to post limitations*
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Old 15-05-2008, 17:35   #6673
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

*continuation*

51. How do I switch BT Webwise on or off?

see above (50) as to the process.

52. Will all users of my broadband connection be affected if I click 'BT Webwise Off' or 'BT Webwise On'?

YES and NO, and IT DEPENDS.
Children under 16 wont be affected at all, details as soon as the orangutans reach the "sweet spot" between sedation and functionality

Everyone else on your network will be snooped upon regardless of their wishes.

53. What happens when I switch off BT Webwise?

THE WORLD WILL COLAPSE IN ON ITSELF AND CRUSH EVERY LIVING THING ON THE PLANET, THE PRESSURE WILL INCREASE EXPONENTIALY AND THE PLANET WILL BURST INTO FLAMES IN A MATTER OF SECONDS.

Phorm

55. What is Phorm?


Phorm is a spyware company. It is focused on circumventing user privacy to offer a more relevant internet advertising experience, and more value for advertisers, publishers, internet service providers and others in the online ecosystem.

Users are cattle and content is grain.

56. What's Phorm's connection to Russia and China?

Currently "Ballsdeep."

57. Does Webwise runs its own Javascript software on the users' machines? (relates to a Phorm patent where it claims it can do this)

Not at this time, monkey woes, legal issues etc.
Please be patient and give us time in order to radicaly alter your internet experience.

PS: could any animal handlers currently looking for gainfull employment please fill out the form on http://btwebwise.com/im-sick-of-losi...rs-to-apes.htm
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Old 15-05-2008, 18:11   #6674
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chroma View Post
Tired of waiting around so ive typed up a new and improved version of the BT Webwise system.

Feel free to copy, laugh and basicly enjoy the read, satire comes as standard, till i can work out the monkey angle.

This is a copy of the BT Webwise FAQ from the BT Webwise homepage

About BT Webwise

1. What is BT Webwise?


BT Webwise is a free service that effectively profiles everything you do on the internet, the cost to the end user is nill but conversely so is the benifit.
It is our effort to watch you in the bathroom whilst offering a thinly veiled guise as "MAKAN INTRANETZ MOAR SAFAR."

2. Do I need to download any software to use BT Webwise?

NO! Its already connected to your line and therefore always on, we will however find it usefull in the future to upload software we feel will benifit us to your computer in the future, the future of course being when all this furor calms down.


!SNIPPED!
ROFL!
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Old 15-05-2008, 18:44   #6675
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Chroma that was hilarious and fantastic. Good work
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