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The state benefits system mega-thread.
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Old 17-12-2019, 17:32   #2551
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

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Originally Posted by RichardCoulter View Post
Standards certainly need to improve:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...Pgj7kegaKeLEoQ
Quote:
They were inserted into a passage which implied that because she was a full-time carer, her claims of restricted mobility must be contrived.
You got to admit that is more than a bit suspicious. IE Claiming difficulties with caring for yourself, but also claim to have no difficulties caring for somebody else.


There is a well known case relating to DLA, ie known as Moyna. It went to the House of Lords(now the Supreme Court). A Woman claimed she had difficultly preparing a main meal for one, which was the test. On the other hand she admitted that she prepared meals for the whole family. She lost, but in the ruling, the Law Lords set out the principles upon which decisions on that area were meant to be made.

Last edited by nomadking; 17-12-2019 at 17:56.
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Old 17-12-2019, 19:49   #2552
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
You got to admit that is more than a bit suspicious. IE Claiming difficulties with caring for yourself, but also claim to have no difficulties caring for somebody else.


There is a well known case relating to DLA, ie known as Moyna. It went to the House of Lords(now the Supreme Court). A Woman claimed she had difficultly preparing a main meal for one, which was the test. On the other hand she admitted that she prepared meals for the whole family. She lost, but in the ruling, the Law Lords set out the principles upon which decisions on that area were meant to be made.
There's nothing automatically suspicious about someone who is disabled who is also a carer eg a blind person may be able to be guided by a seeing person who is a wheelchair user. In addition, the term 'care' was never defined by Parliament and claims have been paid based upon a physically disabled person simply watching television with a mentally impaired person whilst talking about/explaining the programme, making prompts etc. As long as this is done for 35 hours a week or more, it's perfectly in order.

Even if the above were not the case, it is never acceptable for a so called professional to refer to a claimant as 'a lying bitch'.
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Old 17-12-2019, 20:09   #2553
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

And as the Decision Maker also stated, "The tribunal may wish to explore this further.". In other words the claimant doesn't appear to have supplied enough info in order to work out if the 2 things were compatible, and that the tribunal should ask those sort of questions. If anything it might be seen as assisting the claimant's case by prompting the tribunal and the claimant in being prepared to ask and answer those questions. Tribunals are meant to have a inquisitorial role, the DWP aren't.
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Old 21-12-2019, 17:41   #2554
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

£10 Christmas Bonus described as 'an insult' to disabled people:

https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/20/the-g...ople-11928104/

This is also the same for carers who save the taxpayer an absolute fortune.

It was introduced in 1972 and has never been uprated since, if it had it would now be worth approx £130.

Even this paltry amount (worth 76p today) was scrapped for those only on Universal Credit last year.

Last edited by RichardCoulter; 21-12-2019 at 17:54.
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Old 21-12-2019, 18:23   #2555
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

I got mine last week. It is a joke to call it a bonus.
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Old 21-12-2019, 18:53   #2556
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I got mine last week. It is a joke to call it a bonus.
It's £10 more than anyone's giving me,if you don't want it give it to charity.
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Old 21-12-2019, 18:54   #2557
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

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Originally Posted by RichardCoulter View Post
£10 Christmas Bonus described as 'an insult' to disabled people.
As were the recent 1% rises in some Benefits (whilst others were frozen).

I remember some politician (Cameron?) saying that the disabled and their carers would be well cared for.
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Old 21-12-2019, 20:00   #2558
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I got mine last week. It is a joke to call it a bonus.
I'll have it if you don't want it....
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Old 21-12-2019, 21:30   #2559
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

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Originally Posted by Taf View Post
As were the recent 1% rises in some Benefits (whilst others were frozen).

I remember some politician (Cameron?) saying that the disabled and their carers would be well cared for.
The first £73.10 of disability benefits we're frozen, meaning it wasn't even a 1% rise!

Cameron said that disability benefits wouldn't be frozen, but conveniently forgot to mention this bit.
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Old 21-12-2019, 22:25   #2560
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

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Originally Posted by RichardCoulter View Post
The first £73.10 of disability benefits we're frozen, meaning it wasn't even a 1% rise!

Cameron said that disability benefits wouldn't be frozen, but conveniently forgot to mention this bit.
Not really a disability/sickness component of benefits. It's the core component of benefits including income support and JSA.
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Old 21-12-2019, 23:12   #2561
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
Not really a disability/sickness component of benefits. It's the core component of benefits including income support and JSA.
It originates from the introduction of Income Support in 1988 and is the basic amount that a single person over the age of 25 is said to need to live on, before Cameron froze it.

It's also the starting point for other benefits as outlined in Thatchers 1986 Social Security Act for other benefits, including sickness and disability benefits. To say that he wouldn't freeze benefits for the sick and disabled and then go on to freeze this component (particularly without mentioning this in his statement to Parliament) was a downright lie.

Since then, a lot of sick and disabled people have only been awarded this frozen amount with no additions.

This is the first time in history that the extra costs associated with disability have not been recognised. All previous systems of social security (Outdoor Relief, National Assistance, Supplementary Benefit and Income Support) recognised this fact and provided extra help.
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Old 21-12-2019, 23:36   #2562
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

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Originally Posted by RichardCoulter View Post
It originates from the introduction of Income Support in 1988 and is the basic amount that a single person over the age of 25 is said to need to live on, before Cameron froze it.

It's also the starting point for other benefits as outlined in Thatchers 1986 Social Security Act for other benefits, including sickness and disability benefits. To say that he wouldn't freeze benefits for the sick and disabled and then go on to freeze this component (particularly without mentioning this in his statement to Parliament) was a downright lie.

Since then, a lot of sick and disabled people have only been awarded this frozen amount with no additions.

This is the first time in history that the extra costs associated with disability have not been recognised. All previous systems of social security (Outdoor Relief, National Assistance, Supplementary Benefit and Income Support) recognised this fact and provided extra help.
The base amount is not disability/sickness related. IS and ESA are not about extra costs of disability, that is DLA/PIP. The extra amounts with IS and ESA are more to do with being a form of compensation, for not being able to increase your income by finding work.


Not sure who these "lot of sick and disabled people" are meant to be, other than those categories that have always only been eligible for the basic benefits, eg not yet assessed.
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Old 22-12-2019, 22:15   #2563
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
The base amount is not disability/sickness related. IS and ESA are not about extra costs of disability, that is DLA/PIP. The extra amounts with IS and ESA are more to do with being a form of compensation, for not being able to increase your income by finding work.


Not sure who these "lot of sick and disabled people" are meant to be, other than those categories that have always only been eligible for the basic benefits, eg not yet assessed.
The base amount of a persons benefit is an integral part of their sickness/disability related benefit. Overall, it meant that their benefit did not increase (below inflation) by the percentage claimed and Cameron lied when he said that the disabled would be protected.

The Tories removed the extra for sick/disabled people in the 'Work Focussed Activity Group'. This was intended to replace the disability premium, which itself replaced the amounts paid for 'Additional Requirements' within Supplementary Benefit. Now they get nothing apart from the basic amount that those on JSA get that has itself been frozen for years.

I really don't know how these people manage, especially since most now have to pay something towards their rent & Council Tax.

You are incorrect Re: PIP. This is intended to help pay for personal care and help getting out and about, it is the extra elements within I/S & ESA that are intended to help pay for the extra costs of sickness/disability eg extra heating, special diet, bathing/showering etc. This has nothing to do with any form of compensation, perhaps you're confusing this with Reduced Earnings Allowance or Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit?

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Old 22-12-2019, 23:01   #2564
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

The ESA WRAG is meant to be for those "temporarily" sick/incapacitated. Any extra money for IS/IB didn't happen until after a year.
I referred to "form of compensation", the term seems to be "earnings replacement".


There is nothing in the IB/ESA conditions that is connected exclusively to extra costs. That's covered by DLA/PIP.

Link

Quote:
INCAPACITY benefits are income-replacement benefits available to people unable to work due to sickness and/or disability. Employment and support allowance (ESA) has replaced incapacity benefit as the main component. Other components include a dedicated element of income support and the severe disablement allowance.
...
DISABILITY benefits provide financial support to assist with the costs of daily care and/or mobility needs, based on the extent of the recipientís disability. This has been provided through disability living allowance (DLA) since 1992. For working-age claimants, this is now being replaced by the personal independence payment (PIP), which has different eligibility criteria. Attendance allowance provides support to pensioners who require substantial and regular care.
Managing is no different to those just on JSA.
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Old 23-12-2019, 13:17   #2565
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Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
The ESA WRAG is meant to be for those "temporarily" sick/incapacitated. Any extra money for IS/IB didn't happen until after a year.
I referred to "form of compensation", the term seems to be "earnings replacement".

There is nothing in the IB/ESA conditions that is connected exclusively to extra costs. That's covered by DLA/PIP.

Link

Managing is no different to those just on JSA.
Those quotes are out of date, Severe Disablement Allowance was abolished and claimants were moved onto Incapacity Benefit years ago under the Blair Government.

Re: DLA/PIP. The care components are intended to cover personal care needs eg by employing a carer. The mobility components are intended to help people unable to get out and about unaided, unless there is no 'enhanced facility for locomotion', so someone in a coma would not qualify.

The regulations don't specifically state that DLA/PIP must be used for their intended purpose, so many disabled people can and do use these payments for other things that they need help with. For example, some use the money to employ a cleaner even though, strictly speaking, the Severe Disability Premium* is intended for this purpose.

*With the transfer to Universal Credit, the Government had hoped to phase out the Severe Disability Premium, however, test cases have been brought that have prevented them from doing this in many cases.

The Government definition of long term disability (as opposed to temporary) was originally six months (defined by the Thatcher Government regulations). To cut costs, this was later revised to a year. Those not in receipt of certain benefits e.g. DLA were, as you say, only entitled to the disability premium after a year had passed.

Those in the WRAG are expected to start taking steps to obtain employment when appropriate. The problem is that the apalling level of assessments and decision making has not only led to those clearly not fit for work being deemed to be so, but has led to those who should clearly be placed into the Support Group being placed into the WRAG.

Incapacity Benefit, ESA etc are/were indeed intended to help towards income replacement. As I explained earlier, the poorest who rely on means tested benefits, were entitled to the Disability Premium. This was part of the Thatcher plan to simplify the welfare system from 1988 and replaced the 'Addition Requirements' e.g. extra heating, special diet that had existed within Supplementary Benefit.

The Blair reforms to cut down on those not working due to illness/disability replaced Incapacity Benefit and Income Support with ESA. The two ESA group's each originally had a top up payment.

WRAG had a top up to reward those taking steps to find work (in essence the Disability Premium). This was not awarded or removed if they failed to take appropriate steps to secure employment. The Cameron Government scrapped this for new claimants, meaning that these people, for the first time in the history of the welfare state, we're not provided with extra money to help with the additional costs associated with disability or sickness.

The Support Group had an extra payment to reflect the fact that they were never realistically going to work again (again, in essence, a replacement for the Disability Premium). The original idea was that, once the savings from getting those able back into work that were able to, this extra payment would be increased above inflation.

You won't find a specific reference to payments for extra disability costs within Contrinution based ESA/IB as this was covered by the means tested elements of Income Support, which was subsequently renamed Income Related Employment & Support Allowance, which has subsequently been changed to Universal Credit. Any additions for Incapacity Benefit were based on the age that incapacity began.

There is absolutely a difference between someone on completely frozen JSA and partially or fully frozen Income Based ESA as they now no longer receive extra money to help with the extra costs that disability attracts. In addition, they are in a much worse position when it comes to securing employment than those on JSA.

As you can see, the welfare system has become convoluted because of years of tinkering by various Governments, but Cameron in particular is the worst culprit. A disabled person may be now be on one or more legacy benefits (with or without transitional protection) and all this is dependant on what happened to them in the past, often years ago.

This, when coupled with the shedding of DWP staff and the loss of experienced staff (many who had worked there for many years), it's no wonder that the DWP is no longer fit for purpose.

The mere mention of Supplementary Benefit to an an often young and inexperienced member of staff results in a blank stare! I suspect that this lack of training/experience is the reason why the former Thomas Cook employees are complaining about the service that they received:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50885242

Last edited by RichardCoulter; 23-12-2019 at 13:33.
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