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Referee's need retrain and VAR
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Old 09-05-2023, 02:11   #16
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Re: Referee's need retrain and VAR

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Originally Posted by Paul View Post
A rule is a rule, it doesnt matter if they are 3 mm offside or 3 meters offside.
It's not though, it was clearly designed to stop unfair advantage or goal hanging, it even says as much in your description, it was not designed because someone's arm is in front of another players or because someones feet are bigger than anothers and that is evidenced now by them using thicker lines, why bother with that if off side is offside and a rule is a rule?
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Old 09-05-2023, 02:57   #17
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Re: Referee's need retrain and VAR

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Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
It's not though
Um, Yes it is.

It doesnt matter what you think it was designed to do, or whether you like it or not, its a rule [law of the game] no amount of moaning changes that, your posts are just starting to look a bit silly now, and really not worth the effort of responding.
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Old 09-05-2023, 08:33   #18
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Re: Referee's need retrain and VAR

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Originally Posted by Paul View Post
Decisions have gone for us, and against us, but yes, Id rather have it, than not.
I can only think of one I thought was wrong, but the issue with handballs is they are still subjective (as are some fouls) VAR or otherwise.

---------- Post added at 00:22 ---------- Previous post was at 00:20 ----------


A rule is a rule, it doesnt matter if they are 3 mm offside or 3 meters offside.
They are and realistically it does seem to shift the decision from the ref's view to the VAR's view.



Even last night I think Felipe was probably offside but not sure if that could have been seen properly in normal time. So we had VAR micro-analyse it for ages. The two pens probably weren't and if they hadn't been given then VAR probably wouldn't have been involved, but, there was definitely contact on Johnson unlike the one where Surridge apparently fouled their player near the end, which even from the replays Sky showed looked like there was no contact at all, so why didn't VAR spot this? And there's the inconsistency of checking x seconds back to see if anyone was marginally offside in the build up.


I can think of maybe a couple of times where VAR has given us an advantage where it has over-ruled an incorrect decision from the refs, probably the first goal vs Leics is the obvious one, but every time we've had the ball in the net vs Man Utd this season VAR has saved it (maybe they should get VAR to play in goal with DDG's form!) and the pen we were given at home to Brentford was given wrongly by VAR, as well as last week away at them where for their 2nd they had a player clearly offside right in the view of Navas when their player shot to score, should have been ruled out because a player in the middle of the pitch is in play.


With offsides in general it does seem to be a bit of a debate as to whether players are offside if certain parts of their body are behind the last defender and also where the lines are drawn. I think the other week Bamford was called offside with his arm, which of course you can't play the ball with. It needs a bit of consistency and maybe some automation like calls in tennis.
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Old 09-05-2023, 09:54   #19
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Re: Referee's need retrain and VAR

It's a good idea poorly implemented, and they don't stick to their own guidelines.

VAR should be used only when there is a "clear and obvious" error by the match officials.

3mm offside, is not a clear and obvious error.

Also if the VAR official spends 5 minutes looking at an incident from 20 different camera angles, it is also unlikely to be clear and obvious.

I think they should consider moving to a tennis type model, where each manager has a maximum of, say, 3no. challenges per half if they think the decision was wrong, and if they are right they keep the challenge, if wrong they lose it.
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Old 09-05-2023, 15:00   #20
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Re: Referee's need retrain and VAR

I think it's a good idea, but generally is implemented badly, the World Cup it seemed to work, Rugby it works (although they've had time to get used to it)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
I think they should consider moving to a tennis type model, where each manager has a maximum of, say, 3no. challenges per half if they think the decision was wrong, and if they are right they keep the challenge, if wrong they lose it.
that's not bad idea a mate and me were discussing the other day.

having said that, I've been to a few women's matches recently, where since not all the stadiums have VAR, there is no VAR. It's interesting to go back to the old days of everyone jumping up, shouting "offside", "handball", etc then sitting back down again and getting on with it and forgetting about the ref's decision you disagreed with no waiting 5 mins while they work it out.

I think the ones that annoy me the most, are the ones where offside is given, as a player was right on the touch line, miles away from the ball or anyone else and his little finger was in line with the drawn on line, but then 5 mins later, 3 players are "offside" in the box, but somehow, they're not interfering with play, so a goal is given.
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Old 23-04-2024, 19:27   #21
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Re: Referee's need retrain and VAR

The sooner VAR is binned off and the refs do their jobs properly the better...
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Old 23-04-2024, 19:34   #22
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Re: Referee's need retrain and VAR

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Originally Posted by nffc View Post
The sooner VAR is binned off and the refs do their jobs properly the better...
As long as you accept refs make mistakes, just like players, managers and everyone else.
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Old 23-04-2024, 20:49   #23
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Re: Referee's need retrain and VAR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
It's a good idea poorly implemented, and they don't stick to their own guidelines.

VAR should be used only when there is a "clear and obvious" error by the match officials.

3mm offside, is not a clear and obvious error.

Also if the VAR official spends 5 minutes looking at an incident from 20 different camera angles, it is also unlikely to be clear and obvious.

I think they should consider moving to a tennis type model, where each manager has a maximum of, say, 3no. challenges per half if they think the decision was wrong, and if they are right they keep the challenge, if wrong they lose it.
Good idea.
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Old 23-04-2024, 21:01   #24
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Re: Referee's need retrain and VAR

the funny thing is, in the women's game, and men's championship and lower you hear "the sooner we have var the better, referree cost us that game" blah blah, and they obviously see the hatred for it in the premiership

in the men's premiership, ppl are moaning about it, and many want rid, since they can't implement it properly
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Old 23-04-2024, 21:42   #25
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Re: Referee's need retrain and VAR

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Originally Posted by Mr K View Post
As long as you accept refs make mistakes, just like players, managers and everyone else.
Yes they do but then the VAR doesn't overturn it when they do because at the end of the day it's select group refs doing both.


For example on Sunday we had Anthony Taylor as ref and Stuart Attwell as VAR.



Taking aside the point Attwell shouldn't have been on a game involving the two clubs his side are directly involved in a relegation battle with


This was a reverse of the team who officiated our match at Old Trafford in August where we had a controversial penalty and red card such that the club actually complained to PGMOL about the ref and VAR


Then we get this nonsense and countless other examples throughout the season...
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Old 23-04-2024, 22:10   #26
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Re: Referee's need retrain and VAR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
I think they should consider moving to a tennis type model, where each manager has a maximum of, say, 3no. challenges per half if they think the decision was wrong, and if they are right they keep the challenge, if wrong they lose it.
I think thats how American Football works (and cricket ?), it seems to work quite well.
NFL referees also announce the review decision to the stadium via wireless microphones.

---------- Post added at 22:10 ---------- Previous post was at 22:08 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by nffc View Post
The sooner VAR is binned off and the refs do their jobs properly the better...
VAR will not be binned.
Refs not doing the job properly is a whole different thing.
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Old 24-04-2024, 09:35   #27
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Re: Referee's need retrain and VAR

An issue I have is not the technology itself but all the furore that goes on post-game with people looking at video frame by frame and supporting or opposing what happened. It's just a game (regardless of size or shape of ball) and it really doesn't matter that much what the result is.
We all know that the refs leave their Alsatians, white sticks, dark glasses and tin cans off the pitch. They do make mistakes, they always have done and always will do but that should be part of the game.
Separately I do think that players should always respect the ref whatever the code as should the spectators. A bit of chat/banter is OK but the ref is still in charge and deserving of that respect. A few cards for dissent would help.
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Old 24-04-2024, 10:45   #28
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Re: Referee's need retrain and VAR

I'd like to see every pulled shirt called a foul, sometimes they are sometimes they aren't . It would soon stop inside the box if it was called a penalty every time.

Also like to see any player asking for another to be carded, to be given a card themselves.

These things would makes refs lives easier and give a bit of consistency/clarity.
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Old 24-04-2024, 15:14   #29
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Re: Referee's need retrain and VAR

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Also like to see any player asking for another to be carded, to be given a card themselves.
Thats already supposed to happen, and indeed I saw an example happen the other day (cant recall which match).
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Old 25-04-2024, 14:25   #30
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Re: Referee's need retrain and VAR

The Champions League seems to do it well. VAR is rare and quick. Works well.

I think they need to dismantle the PGMOL. The PL brings it in-house. They get the best refs from anywhere in the world, we recruit them like we do the best players, and we adopt the VAR practice used by UEFA.
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