Coronavirus

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Damien

What's happening in India is awful. There is a full-scale humanitarian crisis unfolding and it's only getting worse. 1 million people with COVID in the last few days but that's with shaky testing data, the real number is likely to be higher.

There are videos of people driving their mothers and fathers to the hospital pleading for a bed but the hospitals are at capacity, the staff are working well above capacity, and so the families are trying to persuade their relatives to keep breathing as they lay in the back of a vehicle. It's so awful.

Yes the numbers do appear horrendous vs rest of world.

India 138/million deaths

UK 1,869/million

Looks a lot different when taken in context.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Leading scientists are recommending that requirements for social distancing and face masks should be scrapped in the UK due to the success of the vaccination programme.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...control-lives/

[EXTRACT]

Social distancing should be abolished in June to allow people "to take back control of their own lives", a letter signed by 22 leading scientists and academics says.

The open letter states that "a good society cannot be created by obsessive focus on a single cause of ill-health" and calls for all restrictions to be lifted on June 21 – the final date in Boris Johnson's roadmap out of lockdown.

Mass community testing is also unnecessary, say the signatories, who favour a more targeted approach along with encouraging hand-washing and surface cleaning.

They are also urging the Government to scrap vaccine passports as Covid "no longer requires exceptional measures of control in everyday life".

Ending social distancing restrictions would allow family members from different households to meet up inside and give many grandparents the opportunity to hug their grandchildren for the first time in months.

The scientists – from a broad range of specialities and all sides of the political spectrum – insist the "theoretical risk" of vaccine-immune strains or a new virus surge should not outweigh the harms caused by lockdown rules, including damage to children's education and the nation's mental health.

The scientists say face masks should not be mandatory come June 21 and that the recommendation of face coverings for schoolchildren should never have been extended after Easter. Calling for masks to be ended in classrooms by May 17, they warn that the damage to society will be too great if the current Covid control measures continue into the autumn.

That would be the scientists the Torygraph chooses to quote. Others say different. They have their stocks and share portfolios at heart, not the health of the nation.

Originally Posted by Mr K

That would be the scientists the Torygraph chooses to quote. Others say different. They have their stocks and share portfolios at heart, not the health of the nation.

Would those be the same scientists who, in the Telegraph in October last year, said

Scientists argue against lockdown and urge 'return to normal' now to avoid future health crises

[jfman]

The thing is distancing and masks bridge the gap between now and normal. Open more. Get the economy going.

The alternative is genuinely another lockdown.

All the plus sides of an open society are achievable sooner by doing the right things in the interim. Not blindly following the same people who have been wrong throughout the pandemic.

[nomadking]

It's people NOT distancing, wearing masks etc that is creating the need for lockdowns. If people were behaving properly and responsibly, then the virus should've all died out months ago, as there would've been no opportunity for it to spread.
Link

A man has been arrested in Spain on suspicion of assault after allegedly infecting 22 people with Covid.
The 40-year-old is alleged to have continued to go to work and the gym despite having a cough and a temperature of more than 40C (104F).
He is said to have walked around his place of work in Majorca, pulling his mask down, coughing and telling colleagues he was going to infect them.
Five colleagues and three fellow gym goers later tested positive.
Another 14 people - family members of the infected - also came down with Covid, including three one-year-olds.

[Hom3r]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Leading scientists are recommending that requirements for social distancing and face masks should be scrapped in the UK due to the success of the vaccination programme.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...control-lives/

[EXTRACT]

Social distancing should be abolished in June to allow people "to take back control of their own lives", a letter signed by 22 leading scientists and academics says.

The open letter states that "a good society cannot be created by obsessive focus on a single cause of ill-health" and calls for all restrictions to be lifted on June 21 – the final date in Boris Johnson's roadmap out of lockdown.

Mass community testing is also unnecessary, say the signatories, who favour a more targeted approach along with encouraging hand-washing and surface cleaning.

They are also urging the Government to scrap vaccine passports as Covid "no longer requires exceptional measures of control in everyday life".

Ending social distancing restrictions would allow family members from different households to meet up inside and give many grandparents the opportunity to hug their grandchildren for the first time in months.

The scientists – from a broad range of specialities and all sides of the political spectrum – insist the "theoretical risk" of vaccine-immune strains or a new virus surge should not outweigh the harms caused by lockdown rules, including damage to children's education and the nation's mental health.

The scientists say face masks should not be mandatory come June 21 and that the recommendation of face coverings for schoolchildren should never have been extended after Easter. Calling for masks to be ended in classrooms by May 17, they warn that the damage to society will be too great if the current Covid control measures continue into the autumn.

Well I will carry a mask with me once the restriction end.


I will probably were a mask inside large crowded areas, plus I will more than likely wear a mask inside next late autumn / winter.

---------- Post added at 12:52 ---------- Previous post was at 12:49 ----------

Originally Posted by nomadking

It's people NOT distancing, wearing masks etc that is creating the need for lockdowns. If people were behaving properly and responsibly, then the virus should've all died out months ago, as there would've been no opportunity for it to spread.
Link

100%

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

The thing is distancing and masks bridge the gap between now and normal. Open more. Get the economy going.

The alternative is genuinely another lockdown.

All the plus sides of an open society are achievable sooner by doing the right things in the interim. Not blindly following the same people who have been wrong throughout the pandemic.

The data speaks for itself. Given that all vulnerable groups have been offered the vaccination, and most will be getting their second jab within a few weeks, mask wearing and social distancing should be deemed unnecessary from 17 May. Those not vaccinated are predominantly from non-vulnerable groups and so the NHS will not now be in danger of being overwhelmed.

The virus will be out there for years yet, so people have to learn to live with it and have regular vaccination boosters as required.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The data speaks for itself. Given that all vulnerable groups have been offered the vaccination, and most will be getting their second jab within a few weeks, mask wearing and social distancing should be deemed unnecessary from 17 May. Those not vaccinated are predominantly from non-vulnerable groups and so the NHS will not now be in danger of being overwhelmed.

The virus will be out there for years yet, so people have to learn to live with it and have regular vaccination boosters as required.

The data says no such thing.

You are back at "vaccinate the vulnerable" which is the new "shield the vulnerable".

The virus may well be "out there" for years yet but had we followed your defeatist approach we'd have opened up before we even had a vaccine.

Why anyone would consider mask wearing as "unnecessary" when there's a respiratory virus going around is absolutely beyond me. It costs next to nothing and has some impact. If that keeps society open all the better.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The data speaks for itself. Given that all vulnerable groups have been offered the vaccination, and most will be getting their second jab within a few weeks, mask wearing and social distancing should be deemed unnecessary from 17 May. Those not vaccinated are predominantly from non-vulnerable groups and so the NHS will not now be in danger of being overwhelmed.

The virus will be out there for years yet, so people have to learn to live with it and have regular vaccination boosters as required.

Could you please provide a link* to "the science" which supports that mask wearing and social distancing is unnecessary?

https://www.newscientist.com/article...sease-experts/

Mandatory wearing of face masks in shops and on public transport will probably stay in place in the UK until at least 2022, predict a majority of infectious disease experts polled by New Scientist.

Expectations are similar for UK government guidance on physical distancing, with most anticipating that 2 metre or “1 metre-plus” measures will remain until 2022 or later.

Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article...#ixzz6t9So4DxF

*Great Barrington Declaration doesn't count...

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

The data says no such thing.

You are back at "vaccinate the vulnerable" which is the new "shield the vulnerable".

The virus may well be "out there" for years yet but had we followed your defeatist approach we'd have opened up before we even had a vaccine.

Why anyone would consider mask wearing as "unnecessary" when there's a respiratory virus going around is absolutely beyond me. It costs next to nothing and has some impact. If that keeps society open all the better.

We don't do it for flu and now we have vaccinations, we don't need to do it for Covid either.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

We don't do it for flu and now we have vaccinations, we don't need to do it for Covid either.

Ah "it's just a flu". Explains a lot.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Could you please provide a link* to "the science" which supports that mask wearing and social distancing is unnecessary?

https://www.newscientist.com/article...sease-experts/

*Great Barrington Declaration doesn't count...

Why? I quoted the leading scientists and academics who made the argument that continued use of masks and requirements to social distancing would not be necessary. I was merely agreeing with them.

If you want to argue the toss, knock yourself out. I'm sure you'll find something obscure that will lead you to believe you have made your point.

---------- Post added at 16:45 ---------- Previous post was at 16:44 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

Ah "it's just a flu". Explains a lot.

Except I did not just say that. But the risks will be proportionate now we have a vaccine.

[jfman]

As at May 17 how many people will have had the vaccine? How many both doses? How effective is the vaccine at both one and two doses?

Essentially you are seeking to roll the dice under the guise of "proportionality" despite being 100% wrong in every single engagement with this thread.

Once the whole population, able and willing, have been vaccinated we will be in a better position. Once they have been twice even better again.

On May 17th we are in just the right amount of a precarious situation for it to all to wrong and go back into lockdown by July.

[pip08456]

Get the popcorn ready guys.

EU SUES ASTRAZENECA OVER DELAYS IN DELIVERING COVID-19 VACCINES (Reuters)

See [c] below.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Why? I quoted the leading scientists and academics who made the argument that continued use of masks and requirements to social distancing would not be necessary. I was merely agreeing with them.

If you want to argue the toss, knock yourself out. I'm sure you'll find something obscure that will lead you to believe you have made your point.

---------- Post added at 16:45 ---------- Previous post was at 16:44 ----------



Except I did not just say that. But the risks will be proportionate now we have a vaccine.

Except we can’t see who the ‘leading scientists’ are, because the article is behind a paywall, and the extract doesn’t name them...

Update - found a link in another paper - it’s mostly the Great Barrington mob who were proved wrong last year, when they said there wouldn’t be a second wave...

Is the fact they were completely wrong last year too "obscure" for you?

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/scrap-soci...082935924.html