06-02-2021, 12:22
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#3466
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: #Plagueisland
Age: 53
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Posts: 1,668
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf
I think the EU stance is based on covering von der loony's ponderous arse.
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So the suggestion is that the nations (not the EU BTW, this decision is down to individual countries, the EMA has approved for all over 18) are deliberately withholding a vaccine from the most vulnerable for political gain? That’s the kind of thing that brings down governments..
Here’s the EMA approval by the way - https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/documen...rsement_en.pdf Interestingly, Oxford Biomedica in the UK is an approved manufacturer but not Cobra Biomanufacturing.
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06-02-2021, 12:29
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#3467
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Trollsplatter
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx
So the suggestion is that the nations (not the EU BTW, this decision is down to individual countries, the EMA has approved for all over 18) are deliberately withholding a vaccine from the most vulnerable for political gain? That’s the kind of thing that brings down governments..
Here’s the EMA approval by the way - https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/documen...rsement_en.pdf Interestingly, Oxford Biomedica in the UK is an approved manufacturer but not Cobra Biomanufacturing.
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Yes and no. They are withholding approval for something they don’t actually have, so they are not really preventing them from getting it. What they are doing is spinning their poor political decisions as safety-conscious caution.
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06-02-2021, 18:16
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#3468
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,231
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Yes and no. They are withholding approval for something they don’t actually have, so they are not really preventing them from getting it. What they are doing is spinning their poor political decisions as safety-conscious caution.
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I think we're bordering upon the murky realm of conspiracy theories here. Has every medical approval body in the EU really been instructed to pend approval of the use of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine in elderly people so as to make the EU's purhasing decisions look somewhat better? Perhaps every scientist has been given hush money and given a secret £200k pension to keep quiet about this matter?
Like most conspiracy theories, the truth is rather more boring. There is insufficient data available at the moment that provides these scientists with the confidence they seek.
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06-02-2021, 18:29
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#3469
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,231
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Re: Coronavirus
Here's an interesting chart from today's FT which shows how far ahead AstraZeneca is in its orders, globally.
The unsuccessful Sanofi/GSK vaccine has quite a lot of orders but none from the EU. Curevac's orders seem to be nearly all from the EU but I believe the UK has now ordered 50m doses from the company.
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06-02-2021, 18:39
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#3470
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Sulking in the Corner
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Posts: 11,955
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
I think we're bordering upon the murky realm of conspiracy theories here. Has every medical approval body in the EU really been instructed to pend approval of the use of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine in elderly people so as to make the EU's purhasing decisions look somewhat better? Perhaps every scientist has been given hush money and given a secret £200k pension to keep quiet about this matter?
Like most conspiracy theories, the truth is rather more boring. There is insufficient data available at the moment that provides these scientists with the confidence they seek.
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So our scientists and the EMA are wrong and the countries' scientists are right?
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Seph.
My advice is at your risk.
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06-02-2021, 19:34
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#3471
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Dr Pepper Addict
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
So our scientists and the EMA are wrong and the countries' scientists are right?
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In Andrews opinion, it would seem so.
Have a read : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/55919245
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06-02-2021, 19:41
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#3472
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Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,355
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Re: Coronavirus
Another puff piece from the state broadcaster. I am stunned.
I'm not sure it's correct to categorise it as "right vs wrong" - in the absence of data it becomes a risk based approach which as I'd said previously varies from country to country depending on what is (or isn't) available.
The United States similarly haven't approved the vaccine at all until ongoing trials are complete. Is it really a conspiracy against Great Britain? I suspect not. However it keeps people talking about something other than the death toll I suppose.
Interestingly there are no signs (yet) of a difference in case reduction in the over 80s vs the population at large and the ONS survey has the over 70s flatlining at prevalence around 1% for weeks now.
It's certainly going to be a big couple of weeks coming up for the UK experiment.
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06-02-2021, 19:43
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#3473
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laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 42,098
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
So our scientists and the EMA are wrong and the countries' scientists are right?
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No, the different countries regulatory bodies have reached different conclusions from the data available - that is their job, to reach independent conclusions rather than just follow others (otherwise, what are they there for).
The challenge for all bodies involved is trying to reach a decision of what data is available - the USA has different criteria from the U.K. which has different criteria from other countries.
For a related example, my brother in law is trying to get a treatment for FOP (Fibrodysplasia ossificans progressiva) approved in various countries - he has had it approved by the FDA, but the U.K., EU, Japan, and some other countries haven’t approved it yet, because they want more evidence on certain aspects.
It’s not binary, it’s shaded.
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If only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
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06-02-2021, 19:53
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#3474
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,096
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
Another puff piece from the state broadcaster. I am stunned.
I'm not sure it's correct to categorise it as "right vs wrong" - in the absence of data it becomes a risk based approach which as I'd said previously varies from country to country depending on what is (or isn't) available.
The United States similarly haven't approved the vaccine at all until ongoing trials are complete. Is it really a conspiracy against Great Britain? I suspect not. However it keeps people talking about something other than the death toll I suppose.
Interestingly there are no signs (yet) of a difference in case reduction in the over 80s vs the population at large and the ONS survey has the over 70s flatlining at prevalence around 1% for weeks now.
It's certainly going to be a big couple of weeks coming up for the UK experiment.
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Do we have one...
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06-02-2021, 19:58
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#3475
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vox populi vox dei
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: the last resort
Services: every thing
Posts: 13,739
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
No, the different countries regulatory bodies have reached different conclusions from the data available - that is their job, to reach independent conclusions rather than just follow others (otherwise, what are they there for).
The challenge for all bodies involved is trying to reach a decision of what data is available - the USA has different criteria from the U.K. which has different criteria from other countries.
For a related example, my brother in law is trying to get a treatment for FOP (Fibrodysplasia ossificans progressiva) approved in various countries - he has had it approved by the FDA, but the U.K., EU, Japan, and some other countries haven’t approved it yet, because they want more evidence on certain aspects.
It’s not binary, it’s shaded.
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It's political.
---------- Post added at 19:58 ---------- Previous post was at 19:56 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max
Do we have one...
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Yes but it mostly broadcasts on behalf of the EU.
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06-02-2021, 20:01
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#3476
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laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 42,098
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf
It's political.
---------- Post added at 19:58 ---------- Previous post was at 19:56 ----------
Yes but it mostly broadcasts on behalf of the EU.
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So are you saying that the FOP treatment my Brother in Law is trying to get approved in the U.K. (already approved in the USA) is being held up for political reasons?
__________________
There is always light.
If only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
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06-02-2021, 20:03
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#3477
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vox populi vox dei
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: the last resort
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Posts: 13,739
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
So are you saying that the FOP treatment my Brother in Law is trying to get approved in the U.K. (already approved in the USA) is being held up for political reasons?
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It's not relevant to the debate.
__________________
To be or not to be, woke is the question Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer. The slings and arrows of outrageous wokedome, Or to take arms against a sea of wokies. And by opposing end them.
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06-02-2021, 20:05
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#3478
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,096
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Re: Coronavirus
Got a phone call from a very nice lady this morning asking if I wanted to get my Covid jab on Monday, which I gratefully accepted of course.
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06-02-2021, 20:59
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#3479
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,231
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Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
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Can you indicate to me where I've expressed this opinion?
---------- Post added at 20:59 ---------- Previous post was at 20:58 ----------
Quote:
Oxford/AstraZeneca Covid jab far less effective against S African strain, study shows
Preliminary findings show no protection against mild and moderate disease caused by variant
The Oxford/AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine does not appear to offer protection against mild and moderate disease caused by the viral variant first identified in South Africa, according to a study due to be published on Monday.
Although none of the more than 2,000 patients in the study died or was hospitalised, the findings could complicate the race to roll out vaccines as new strains emerge.
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https://www.ft.com/content/e9bbd4fe-...3-be64140a3f36
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