Coronavirus

Originally Posted by jfman

They're committing to put it into the arms where it's proven to work. Not sure why that's child like.

---------- Post added at 21:33 ---------- Previous post was at 21:32 ----------



The proof is indeed in the pudding.

I’m questioning whether they would have made the same decision had they actually had any to put in people’s arms. Given the much-vaunted EMA’s decision to recommend it for all ages, the decision by some member states to take the superfluous decision to restrict the use of something they don’t even have is curious to say the least. It looks like vaccine envy to me.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Chris

It looks like vaccine envy to me.

Or vaccine sovereignty or lack of trust in the EMA. Pay your money and take your choice.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Or vaccine sovereignty or lack of trust in the EMA. Pay your money and take your choice.

But but but pooling and sharing and unity in strength and more Europe and and and

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Chris

I’m questioning whether they would have made the same decision had they actually had any to put in people’s arms. Given the much-vaunted EMA’s decision to recommend it for all ages, the decision by some member states to take the superfluous decision to restrict the use of something they don’t even have is curious to say the least. It looks like vaccine envy to me.

Being the forum resident cynic I did raise this with reference to Switzerland. Happy to extend this to the EU.

The good news is we are running a massive trial for them (excluding Chesterfield players and PHE staff). If proven wrong it will be evident very quickly.

Originally Posted by jfman

Being the forum resident cynic I did raise this with reference to Switzerland. Happy to extend this to the EU.

The good news is we are running a massive trial for them (excluding Chesterfield players and PHE staff). If proven wrong it will be evident very quickly.

By coincidence the BBC is running a package now about the AZ vaccine being used for house visits where vulnerable and shielding people haven’t been able to get out to a vaccination centre. Obviously this is much easier to do with the AZ vaccine than either Pfizer or Moderna because once those have thawed you have to use them quickly.

The AZ vaccine, and others like it (chilled rather than cryogenic storage) are going to be the workhorse vaccines in this pandemic, and not the high-tech, supercooled mRNA vaccines the EU has most access to. I’m happy for us to share our expertise and good fortune with those countries that have expressed concerns, but I really don’t know how genuine those concerns are.

To me it looks like a dead cat story designed to deflect attention away from the EU’s horrific vaccination programme failure and to stop EU citizens thinking that the UK might be in a better position than the EU - which of course is not the narrative anyone in the EU wants to deal with.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Chris

By coincidence the BBC is running a package now about the AZ vaccine being used for house visits where vulnerable and shielding people haven’t been able to get out to a vaccination centre. Obviously this is much easier to do with the AZ vaccine than either Pfizer or Moderna because once those have thawed you have to use them quickly.

That's very nice of the state propaganda machine to do so.

The AZ vaccine, and others like it (chilled rather than cryogenic storage) are going to be the workhorse vaccines in this pandemic, and not the high-tech, supercooled mRNA vaccines the EU has most access to. I’m happy for us to share our expertise and good fortune with those countries that have expressed concerns, but I really don’t know how genuine those concerns are.

To me it looks like a dead cat story designed to deflect attention away from the EU’s horrific vaccination programme failure and to stop EU citizens thinking that the UK might be in a better position than the EU - which of course is not the narrative anyone in the EU wants to deal with.

I agree if real world effectiveness of the Ox/Az vaccine stands up. We disagree on whether selectively interpreting this data retrospectively is trustworthy, however a greater extent the point is moot. It's out there - 10 million doses.

Let's see how it flies. My only caveat is the decreased PCR testing by the UK Government in favour of lateral flow testing could tip the balance at very convenient timing despite not being reflective of how the vaccine is performing in the community (which ONS testing will provide).

[spiderplant]

Originally Posted by Chris

not the high-tech, supercooled mRNA vaccines the EU has most access to.

Deals done:
AstraZeneca (400 million doses) -- fridge
Sanofi-GSK (300 million doses) -- presumably fridge, as it's based on a flu vaccine
Johnson and Johnson (400 million doses) -- fridge
BioNTech-Pfizer (600 million doses) -- supercooled
CureVac (405 million doses) -- fridge (mRNA, incidentally)
Moderna (160 million doses) -- 30 days fridge, 6 months freezer

Negotiating:
Novavax (200 million doses) -- fridge
Valneva (60 million doses) -- fridge

Originally Posted by spiderplant

Deals done:
AstraZeneca (400 million doses) -- fridge
Sanofi-GSK (300 million doses) -- presumably fridge, as it's based on a flu vaccine
Johnson and Johnson (400 million doses) -- fridge
BioNTech-Pfizer (600 million doses) -- supercooled
CureVac (405 million doses) -- fridge (mRNA, incidentally)
Moderna (160 million doses) -- 30 days fridge, 6 months freezer

Negotiating:
Novavax (200 million doses) -- fridge
Valneva (60 million doses) -- fridge

Very few of which are anywhere near delivering significant numbers of doses to the EU. The Pfizer vaccine is by far the biggest deal the EU has done as well as being the earliest to be ready. Within the EU, right now, if you’re lucky enough to get a vaccine in the next 2 months it is unlikely to be anything other than that one.

Incidentally the Sanofi-GSK vaccine failed to produce an immune response in over 50s and reformulation work means it won’t now produce a working product before the end of the year. For the time being Sanofi’s manufacturing capacity has been turned over to making yet more of the Pfizer-BioNTech product.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Chris

Incidentally the Sanofi-GSK vaccine failed to produce an immune response in over 50s and reformulation work means it won’t now produce a working product before the end of the year.

Interesting.

Originally Posted by jfman

Interesting.

Indeed, and unfortunate.

https://www.fiercebiotech.com/biotec...vid-19-vaccine

It is adding to a sense of frustration in the French media which is also demanding to know why the French company Valneva is producing in the UK, with UK development funding and a UK order on its books, while neither the EU nor the French government has yet to conclude a deal with them.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Chris

Indeed, and unfortunate.

https://www.fiercebiotech.com/biotec...vid-19-vaccine

It is adding to a sense of frustration in the French media which is also demanding to know why the French company Valneva is producing in the UK, with UK development funding and a UK order on its books, while neither the EU nor the French government has yet to conclude a deal with them.

I would suggest they read books on capitalism.

Originally Posted by Pierre

And when turns out that the AZ is perfectly good for the over 65’s, they’ll just look stupid.

They already look stupid.

Originally Posted by jfman

Interesting.

Originally Posted by Chris

Indeed, and unfortunate.

Interesting that they havent just gone ahead with it anyway as it seems perfectly ok for under 50 year olds.
That is surely a large block of the population in most countires, and other vaccines are available to cover the older people.

Originally Posted by Paul

They already look stupid.



Interesting that they havent just gone ahead with it anyway as it seems perfectly ok for under 50 year olds.
That is surely a large block of the population in most countires, and other vaccines are available to cover the older people.

In the UK at least, over 50s are more than half of the population, and almost all covid deaths are in that age band. It’s just not useful enough.

[spiderplant]

Originally Posted by Chris

In the UK at least, over 50s are more than half of the population.

"In mid-2019, the median age in the UK was 40.3 years, 0.2 years higher than mid-2018 and 1 year higher than mid-2009"
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...d2019estimates

Originally Posted by spiderplant

"In mid-2019, the median age in the UK was 40.3 years, 0.2 years higher than mid-2018 and 1 year higher than mid-2009"
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...d2019estimates

In this case I’m repeating a BBC TV news report from last night It’s possible they were referring to the adult population, as there’s no plan yet to vaccinate children.