Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Paul

As you can see above, the usual suspects have no interest in the actual facts.

Ah, bless, "usual suspects" ... is that it?

Care to comment on why a tax payer provided fund is repairing a private road owned by a multi-millionaire?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Ah, bless, "usual suspects" ... is that it?

In fairness I actually said:

Originally Posted by jfman

I’ve not read much of the detail (as others have noted it won’t change my mind that it’s absolutely corrupt)

Although my “it” was the Conservative Government, not this specific incident, which I could have been clearer about.

I’d not describe this incident as absolutely corrupt without reading about it first. It’s the least I can do.

Originally Posted by ianch99

Care to comment on why a tax payer provided fund is repairing a private road owned by a multi-millionaire?

Have you lost your ability to read now, the information is all there when you regain it.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Well I’m sure if you had visibility of all the applications and weighed up all the evidence you’d have come to a decision………and of course welcomed that decision to have been assessed on social media, and if ridiculed, you would have battled that with all the internet memes at your disposal……you are excellent at that.

You are such a sweetie - never let a reasonable question get in the way of your bitterness, acrimony, and animosity; you been over-indulging the Buckie again?

Happy Hogmanay, and big hugs - Lang may your lum reek -x-

[1andrew1]

Boris Johnson to be cleared of breaking rules over Downing St flat refurbishment

Geidt inquiry will ‘criticise’ prime minister’s conduct, say senior officials

Boris Johnson is set to be cleared of breaking the ministerial code by an internal Whitehall inquiry into a loan to redecorate his Downing Street residence but his conduct will be criticised, according to senior officials.

Lord Christopher Geidt, the independent adviser on ministers’ interests, has exchanged a series of letters in recent weeks with the prime minister over further revelations about a £58,000 donation from Lord David Brownlow to refurbish Johnson’s Number 11 Downing Street flat.

Although Geidt previously cleared Johnson of breaking the ministerial code over allegations of soliciting a donation from Brownlow, a recent Electoral Commission investigation revealed WhatsApp messages between Brownlow and Johnson.

Geidt has since re-examined his initial investigation to see whether he was misled by Johnson when the prime minister said he did not solicit a donation from Brownlow. Government insiders said Geidt had now seen all the relevant WhatsApp messages...

One senior official said: “Geidt makes clear the situation is a total mess. But at the same time the fundamental conclusion is that the PM did not deceive and did not break the ministerial code.”

Downing Street declined to comment.

The Cabinet Office, where Geidt’s office is based, said: “We don’t comment on speculation.”

https://www.ft.com/content/d47eaada-...6-d61e0a30a891

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Paul

Have you lost your ability to read now, the information is all there when you regain it.

I appreciate the concern over my eyesight but I can read and have read the documents. It is clear that the landowner has not maintained his roadway for a number of years, resulting in the current state of disrepair. Asking the tax payer to pay for repairs to his (private) road seems inappropriate given the source of the funds and his wealth.

I mean when the Mail is against it and even the Mail Readers comments are, then your know the Tories are in trouble here - best rated comment on that page linked earlier:

Sums up everything that stinks about this Conservative government

Let's face it, Daily Mail readers normally to the right of Atilla The Hun

Originally Posted by ianch99

I appreciate the concern over my eyesight but I can read and have read the documents. It is clear that the landowner has not maintained his roadway for a number of years, resulting in the current state of disrepair. Asking the tax payer to pay for repairs to his (private) road seems inappropriate given the source of the funds and his wealth.

I mean when the Mail is against it and even the Mail Readers comments are, then your know the Tories are in trouble here - best rated comment on that page linked earlier:



Let's face it, Daily Mail readers normally to the right of Atilla The Hun

I wonder whether you have really read it, as you’re still missing a salient point: it isn’t his. It belongs to the estate company, which is a fairly common state of affairs after the inheritance tax changes of the 20th century.

So yes, it’s still a private road and yes, if it’s that badly potholed then its owner may have been culpable (but see my comments earlier - liability for maintenance is not necessarily with the landowner. The leaseholder (the museum in this case) may have some responsibility).

Ultimately you may not feel any different about it but I think if we’re going to have an opinion on something it’s as well to try to ensure it’s an informed one.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Chris

I wonder whether you have really read it, as you’re still missing a salient point: it isn’t his. It belongs to the estate company, which is a fairly common state of affairs after the inheritance tax changes of the 20th century.

So yes, it’s still a private road and yes, if it’s that badly potholed then its owner may have been culpable (but see my comments earlier - liability for maintenance is not necessarily with the landowner. The leaseholder (the museum in this case) may have some responsibility).

Ultimately you may not feel any different about it but I think if we’re going to have an opinion on something it’s as well to try to ensure it’s an informed one.

I am afraid I am informed on this as you are. The Firle Estate, owned by the Gage family, has an tax break to reduce their inheritance tax:

https://www.oss.org.uk/firle-estate-...-and-for-what/

The Firle Estate, near Lewes in East Sussex contains some of the most iconic walking landscape in the country, including the Firle Beacon stretch of the South Downs Way.

So it might not surprise you to learn that the Estate has obtained exemption from inheritance tax on nearly all the estate in return for keeping the estate in good condition and allowing public access.

This is a considerable tax concession and one that many home owners in the South-East would like to have.

A map of the areas of the estate that are exempt from inheritance tax can be seen here

http://www.leweseye.co.uk/environmen...aths-of-firle/

Governments have adopted a scheme to exempt property from inheritance tax in return for undertakings about public access and the adoption of measures designed to conserve the property. This can apply to land, buildings and works of art.

The Firle estate opens the Firle Place, a stately home, on a number of days per week in return for one exemption, but the estate has managed to get out of paying inheritance tax on the whole of the rest of the estate in return for what appears to be the granting of 2 new paths, doing the things it legally has to do anyway, and maintaining the estate in the way that any decent landlord would do. The exemption is worth many millions.

However, this is just another tiresome case of wealthy people trying not pay their dues. The main issue here is the epic PR fail. It will go on the pile of other Tory sleaze & corruption stories ..

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

You are such a sweetie - never let a reasonable question get in the way of your bitterness, acrimony, and animosity; you been over-indulging the Buckie again?

Happy Hogmanay, and big hugs - Lang may your lum reek -x-

Thank you for the sentiment if a little Scottish heavy, I’m not Scottish. Wishing you happy and prosperous New Year.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by ianch99

However, this is just another tiresome case of wealthy people trying not pay their dues. The main issue here is the epic PR fail. It will go on the pile of other Tory sleaze & corruption stories ..

His lordship's wealth is estimated at 15 million, yet his house is worth 10 million, he owns 191 houses in those 5 villages and both pubs amongst other things, do these figures add up?

Originally Posted by Pierre

Thank you for the sentiment if a little Scottish heavy, I’m not Scottish. Wishing you happy and prosperous New Year.

I am Scots, but have lived outside Alba for 75% of my life.

Wishing you and yours all the best for 2022, and beyond.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Quote:
Boris Johnson to be cleared of breaking rules over Downing St flat refurbishment

Geidt inquiry will ‘criticise’ prime minister’s conduct, say senior officials

Boris Johnson is set to be cleared of breaking the ministerial code by an internal Whitehall inquiry into a loan to redecorate his Downing Street residence but his conduct will be criticised, according to senior officials.

Lord Christopher Geidt, the independent adviser on ministers’ interests, has exchanged a series of letters in recent weeks with the prime minister over further revelations about a £58,000 donation from Lord David Brownlow to refurbish Johnson’s Number 11 Downing Street flat.

Although Geidt previously cleared Johnson of breaking the ministerial code over allegations of soliciting a donation from Brownlow, a recent Electoral Commission investigation revealed WhatsApp messages between Brownlow and Johnson.

Geidt has since re-examined his initial investigation to see whether he was misled by Johnson when the prime minister said he did not solicit a donation from Brownlow. Government insiders said Geidt had now seen all the relevant WhatsApp messages...

One senior official said: “Geidt makes clear the situation is a total mess. But at the same time the fundamental conclusion is that the PM did not deceive and did not break the ministerial code.”

Downing Street declined to comment.

The Cabinet Office, where Geidt’s office is based, said: “We don’t comment on speculation.”

https://www.ft.com/content/d47eaada-...6-d61e0a30a891

Interesting that you didn’t comment on this, Andrew - you must have bitten your lip when you posted it!

Just the parties to sort out now, and that’s the nasty, vindictive smears sorted out, for this time at least.

I wonder if people will ever start to draw the conclusion that it is these allegations spread by the Labour Party that are the real lies, not the PM.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Interesting that you didn’t comment on this, Andrew - you must have bitten your lip when you posted it!

Just the parties to sort out now, and that’s the nasty, vindictive smears sorted out, for this time at least.

I wonder if people will ever start to draw the conclusion that it is these allegations spread by the Labour Party that are the real lies, not the PM.

Boris is a bad egg. The average person on the Clapham omnibus would think 'what does the donor want in return for a £58,000 drop?.

The letter of the rules - well maybe Boris wins that; the "seen to be proper" bit is doubtful.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Boris is a bad egg. The average person on the Clapham omnibus would think 'what does the donor want in return for a £58,000 drop?.

The letter of the rules - well maybe Boris wins that; the "seen to be proper" bit is doubtful.

The average person on the Clapham omnibus is more concerned about the economy and their personal circumstances, I think you will find.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The average person on the Clapham omnibus is more concerned about the economy and their personal circumstances, I think you will find.

... Nah - the average person on the Clapham omnibus likes a bit of scandal - and then frowns upon it. Boris is a buffoon and easy to frown upon.