Brexit (Old)

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

29% favour a second referendum v 27% a no-deal Brexit.
Unsurprisingly, voters are fed up with the way that it's dragging on.

A second referendum would make it drag on longer.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

A second referendum would make it drag on longer.

Let's not cloud the issue with facts.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

A second referendum would make it drag on longer.

Although I'm not in favour of a second referendum, it would likely give a Remain result which would end things quite quickly.
It's easy to forget; and the Brexit press won't go out of their way to remind you; but if we leave the hardest negotiations for the trade deal are ahead of us and will take years to conclude. That's why the current offer from the EU is relatively generic - the EU is saving its energy for the main negotiations.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Although I'm not in favour of a second referendum, it would likely give a Remain result which would end things quite quickly.

No it wouldn't - why should the Remain result be allowed to stand when the prior result is ignored?

Brexiteers will not allow this travesty to democracy play out.

The division will only fester and get worse - it will certainly not end quickly.

The People of the UK was asked a question, the decision was to leave but the Remainers in the civil service and government thwart this democratic decision, wrongly decide to hold an invalid referendum and I suspect leave probably wins again, Remain has no chance, the corrupted EU has shown it's disgusting true colours over and over in these negotiations and the people of the UK are not stupid and will vote overwhelmingly for leave, do we have the best of three ?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Although I'm not in favour of a second referendum, it would likely give a Remain result which would end things quite quickly.
It's easy to forget; and the Brexit press won't go out of their way to remind you; but if we leave the hardest negotiations for the trade deal are ahead of us and will take years to conclude. That's why the current offer from the EU is relatively generic - the EU is saving its energy for the main negotiations.

But that would not be the end of it in the event that a 'remain' verdict came out of it. The likelihood is that fewer people would turn up this time as they would see how the politicians are clearly trying to ignore the will of the electorate.

That means the turnout would be lower and the population would not be convinced that this was the true will of the electorate. You would need to have the same number or more casting their opinion at the ballot to make such a result legitimate.

Accordingly, a second referendum is ore likely to raise further doubts and confusion, not to mention increased anger, rather than solve anything.

Those arguing for another referendum are simply trying to overturn the democratic will of the people and should be ashamed of themselves. These people are not democrats. They are control freaks and dictators who just want their own way, even when outvoted.

Originally Posted by ianch99

Or, also known as, 2000 people asked by a poll commissioned by the rabid anti-EU Daily Express.

I believe it .. It's the truth, honest ..

Would that be the same truth to the fact that there was not 700,000 marching for a People's vote late last year and that it's figures on attendance had been over inflated by PV themselves... ?

https://fullfact.org/news/did-670000...s-vote-brexit/

[Carth]

All I'm going to state about these polls/surveys that people keep mentioning . . is that I've never been asked

Has anyone posting here ever been contacted by phone, post, or internet and asked their views?

Originally Posted by Carth

All I'm going to state about these polls/surveys that people keep mentioning . . is that I've never been asked

Has anyone posting here ever been contacted by phone, post, or internet and asked their views?

Yes, for YouGov online surveys.

---------- Post added at 12:08 ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 ----------

Originally Posted by Mick

Would that be the same truth to the fact that there was not 700,000 marching for a People's vote late last year and that it's figures on attendance had been over inflated by PV themselves... ?

https://fullfact.org/news/did-670000...s-vote-brexit/

You're right - it was probably only 450,000...

we estimate that around 450,000 marchers may have been on the streets at the start of the march.

This doesn’t mean we think the 670,000 estimate is necessarily wrong though. The organisers told us that people also gathered outside the official route.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Mick

No it wouldn't - why should the Remain result be allowed to stand when the prior result is ignored?

Brexiteers will not allow this travesty to democracy play out.

The division will only fester and get worse - it will certainly not end quickly.

The People of the UK was asked a question, the decision was to leave but the Remainers in the civil service and government thwart this democratic decision, wrongly decide to hold an invalid referendum and I suspect leave probably wins again, Remain has no chance, the corrupted EU has shown it's disgusting true colours over and over in these negotiations and the people of the UK are not stupid and will vote overwhelmingly for leave, do we have the best of three ?

You obviously don’t suspect leave wins again hence your impassioned rallying against the confirmatory referendum. If people who want to leave genuinely believed that they’d have nothing to fear.

In practice they know that a second referendum kills their dream off for good. People will have made an informed fact based decision unlike in 2016. Except obviously the Mystic Megs of cable forum that knew Liam Fox was lying when he said the UK/EU deal would be the easiest in history.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

29% favour a second referendum v 27% a no-deal Brexit.
Unsurprisingly, voters are fed up with the way that it's dragging on.

Hang on a minute. I thought the "Public [were] swinging behind no deal Brexit"?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

No it wouldn't - why should the Remain result be allowed to stand when the prior result is ignored?

Brexiteers will not allow this travesty to democracy play out.

The division will only fester and get worse - it will certainly not end quickly.

The People of the UK was asked a question, the decision was to leave but the Remainers in the civil service and government thwart this democratic decision, wrongly decide to hold an invalid referendum and I suspect leave probably wins again, Remain has no chance, the corrupted EU has shown it's disgusting true colours over and over in these negotiations and the people of the UK are not stupid and will vote overwhelmingly for leave, do we have the best of three ?

I've said I don't agree with a second referendum. But I'm being dispassionate here. So I am arguing that a People's Vote and a desire to end the negotiations quickly are not contradictory as we still have a trade deal to negotiate if we leave...and that will take years and years.

[Carth]

I don't see how a second referendum will solve anything.

Throwing it back to the 'people' would insinuate the Government hasn't got a clue what to do (big lol) and we've already had discussions (arguments) about the choices we'd have on the ballot paper

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Carth

I don't see how a second referendum will solve anything.

Throwing it back to the 'people' would insinuate the Government hasn't got a clue what to do (big lol) and we've already had discussions (arguments) about the choices we'd have on the ballot paper

It gives the government the cover that it tried to deliver and the people didn’t want it when they saw what it looked like.

The politicians don’t want Brexit but don’t want the blame either. A referendum shifts the blame away from either main party.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by jfman

It gives the government the cover that it tried to deliver and the people didn’t want it when they saw what it looked like.

The politicians don’t want Brexit but don’t want the blame either. A referendum shifts the blame away from either main party.

Not sure about politicians not wanting some sort of Brexit. The ERG and Corbyn et al, seem to want this.

However, a second referendum would at least add a veneer of legitimacy to whichever choice is preferred.

[nomadking]

In essence we've had the 2nd referendum, the 1st being the 1975 one. The result of the "2nd" is after eventually finding out what voting remain in 1975 meant. It is inevitable that if we ended up remaining, it will get worse.