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Old 21-09-2018, 18:34   #1351
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Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)

Even Baldrick gets it!

https://twitter.com/Tony_Robinson/st...64866763206656

Quote:
Day 1. EU ”You can’t undermine the Single Market.” Theresa “Yes we can.”

Day 100. EU "You can’t undermine the Single Market.” Theresa “Yes we can.”

Day 550. EU ”You can’t undermine the Single Market.” Theresa “How dare you spring that on us at this late stage. Show some respect! “
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Old 21-09-2018, 18:36   #1352
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Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua View Post

The EU have offered a solution.

Anything you might want would mean a fundamental change to the EU. We are leaving, we don't get to change the EU to suit.
Have they? That's not what Theresa May said this afternoon.

Oh, silly me, you meant the solution that we stay in the EU! Ain't gonna happen, mate.
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Old 21-09-2018, 19:58   #1353
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Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)

[QUOTE=OLD BOY;35963923]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua View Post
Problem you have there, it is the Northern Irish who are being punished by Brexit with all the problems it will cause the GFA.

The only way to avoid a hard border is not to leave the EU.[/QUOTE]

Which, of course, is the opposite of what the electorate voted for.

The Irish government had better be careful. If we are forced to accept WTO and the EU impose a trade border, we might just decide to impose a trade embargo and shift our Irish trade to the US or somewhere else instead.

Could turn nasty.
Yeah, look at the companies we would be boycotting - http://www.top1000.ie/companies

Apple, Google, Microsoft, Facebook in the technology field. In my business, almost every big pharmaceutical company has a base in Ireland - https://www.siliconrepublic.com/care...panies-ireland
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Old 21-09-2018, 20:38   #1354
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Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)

[QUOTE=jonbxx;35963936]
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post

Yeah, look at the companies we would be boycotting - http://www.top1000.ie/companies

Apple, Google, Microsoft, Facebook in the technology field. In my business, almost every big pharmaceutical company has a base in Ireland - https://www.siliconrepublic.com/care...panies-ireland
I don't think that where a company has a base is necessarily a factor. Are you seriously suggesting, for example, that we won't be able to access Google if we closed the Irish border to trade?

I don't think so. However, agricultural products would be seriously affected. The Irish Republic would not like that.
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Old 21-09-2018, 21:10   #1355
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Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)

The 'red lines' are more ours than the EU though.

1) Neither the EU or the UK wants a border in Ireland
2) The UK doesn't want a border in the Irish Sea - EU cool with that
3) The UK doesn't want a customs union - EU cool with that

What is the solution to the problem we are hoping the EU comes up with?
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Old 21-09-2018, 21:31   #1356
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Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)

[QUOTE=OLD BOY;35963942]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx View Post

I don't think that where a company has a base is necessarily a factor. Are you seriously suggesting, for example, that we won't be able to access Google if we closed the Irish border to trade?

I don't think so. However, agricultural products would be seriously affected. The Irish Republic would not like that.
There’s more to Google than a search engine! Their medical AI work for instance is just amazing. Plus all of their analytics, development platforms and APIs.

I know in the pharma field, some sites in Ireland are sole manufacturers globally. There is no alternative if you want a specific drug..

You are right, though, agriculture, especially in the northern counties will definitely be hurt big time.
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Old 22-09-2018, 01:39   #1357
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Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien View Post
The 'red lines' are more ours than the EU though.

1) Neither the EU or the UK wants a border in Ireland
2) The UK doesn't want a border in the Irish Sea - EU cool with that
3) The UK doesn't want a customs union - EU cool with that

What is the solution to the problem we are hoping the EU comes up with?
These to me are the options which haven't changed since 2016.
1) No deal
2) Postpone withdrawal
3) United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland stays in EEA and Customs Union.
4) Great Britain stays in EEA but leaves Customs Union. Northern Ireland stays in both EEA and Customs Union
5) Great Britain gets a Canada-style deal. Northern Ireland stays in both EEA and Customs Union.
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Old 22-09-2018, 09:13   #1358
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Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
These to me are the options which haven't changed since 2016.
1) No deal
2) Postpone withdrawal May has ruled this out.
3) United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland stays in EEA and Customs Union. Does not fit the 4 EU freedoms.
4) Great Britain stays in EEA but leaves Customs Union. Northern Ireland stays in both EEA and Customs Union. See above.
5) Great Britain gets a Canada-style deal. Northern Ireland stays in both EEA and Customs Union.
The last one will be interesting as May has again stated the UK will not be fragmented, which the last option would require.

Whilst the last option may suit some, it will definitely not suit the hard leave group and splits the UK in terms of agreements. Scotland might start clamouring for a similar arrangement as NI.

The whole EU vote has divided the UK and the Tory Party, and it looks like NI will be sacrificed in order to maintain the Tory party.

Last edited by Angua; 22-09-2018 at 09:18.
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Old 22-09-2018, 09:32   #1359
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Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
These to me are the options which haven't changed since 2016.
1) No deal
2) Postpone withdrawal
3) United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland stays in EEA and Customs Union.
4) Great Britain stays in EEA but leaves Customs Union. Northern Ireland stays in both EEA and Customs Union
5) Great Britain gets a Canada-style deal. Northern Ireland stays in both EEA and Customs Union.
Can you remind me which of these is in the "leaflet posted through the door explaining exactly what brexit was" ?
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Old 22-09-2018, 09:35   #1360
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Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua View Post
Nicola Sturgeon might start clamouring for a similar arrangement as NI.
Fixed that for you.

Please don’t equate Scottish nationalists with Scotland; they are not the same thing. Most Scottish people understand the principles behind democracy and majority - I’d argue that most understand them better than many people south of the border, seeing as we are the only part of the U.K. ever to have debated and voted on a choice to be in or out of the UK. We understand that this means we go where the UK goes even if most people in Scotland later voted to remain in the EU. Nationalists continue to argue for different treatment for Scotland because it suits their agenda to keep seeking points of difference and grievance.
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Old 22-09-2018, 09:37   #1361
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Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
Fixed that for you.

Please don’t equate Scottish nationalists with Scotland; they are not the same thing. Most Scottish people understand the principles behind democracy and majority - I’d argue that most understand them better than many people south of the border, seeing as we are the only part of the U.K. ever to have debated and voted on a choice to be in or out of the UK. We understand that this means we go where the UK goes even if most people in Scotland later voted to remain in the EU. Nationalists continue to argue for different treatment for Scotland because it suits their agenda to keep seeking points of difference and grievance.
Fair play, but you do see where this is going.
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Old 22-09-2018, 09:42   #1362
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Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)

Not a lot of difference between 55/45 and 52/48.
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Old 22-09-2018, 10:03   #1363
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Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
Not a lot of difference between 55/45 and 52/48.
The similarities between the arguments over Scottish independence and the UK’s membership of the EU are also quite striking, though they are by no means identical (hence the enormously different voting pattern in Scotland in 2016 compared to 2014).

The likely similarity between Brexit negotiations and any attempt to negotiate Scotland out of the U.K. is giving Nicola Sturgeon sleepless nights at the moment. You may have wondered why she has been so restrained (for her) in her commentary on the process; it’s because she doesn’t want to make the process look horribly difficult for fear of making the process of Scottish independence look so horrible as to be unthinkable. It’s also the reason why she’s not lining up with the ‘people’s vote’ numpties in support of a second referendum. You can be quite certain that if she ever wins one in Scotland, she won’t entertain any calls for a second referendum of any form. She knows, even if the ‘peoples Vote’ lot won’t admit it, that a second referendum ‘on the terms of the deal’ is really just a device to overturn the original result.
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Old 22-09-2018, 11:12   #1364
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Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)

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Originally Posted by ianch99 View Post
Can you remind me which of these is in the "leaflet posted through the door explaining exactly what brexit was" ?
I read it in the leaflet, anyone who didn't should go to Specsavers. Other brands are available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua View Post
The last one will be interesting as May has again stated the UK will not be fragmented, which the last option would require.

Whilst the last option may suit some, it will definitely not suit the hard leave group and splits the UK in terms of agreements. Scotland might start clamouring for a similar arrangement as NI.

The whole EU vote has divided the UK and the Tory Party, and it looks like NI will be sacrificed in order to maintain the Tory party.
I think The Independent nails what will happen.
Quote:
What she said: No one wants a good deal more than me. But the EU should be clear. I will not overturn the results of the referendum, nor will I break up my country. We need serious engagement on resolving the two big problems in the negotiations. And we stand ready.

What she meant: I will cave in after the Conservative Party conference.
What will happen? Jonathan Lis of Influence spells it out.
Quote:
The EU will not accept the Chequers plan, which proposes a single market in goods but not in services, capital or people. It will also not accept any possibility of border infrastructure in Ireland, which is anathema to Dublin and, according to the Police Service of Northern Ireland, presents a credible risk of sectarian violence. That has duly paved the way for the Brexit endgame, which EU negotiator Michel Barnier has now confirmed: there will be a border for goods in the Irish Sea.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-customs-union
Whether the UK decides to remove the GB-NI border by GB staying in the Customs Union and EEA is up to Theresa May's Government. Expect a somewhat different approach from Theresa May after the Conservative Party Conference!
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Old 22-09-2018, 11:26   #1365
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Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)

How's a border in the Irish Sea going to work?

1. GB to Northern Ireland - no border.
2. GB to Irish Republic - that's up to the EU.
3. Irish Republic to GB - that's up to the UK.
4. Irish Republic to Northern Ireland - that's up to the EU if we make no border.
5. Northern Ireland to Irish Republic - that's up to the EU.
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