Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

It is too late in America to ban guns, there is simply too many in circulation.

If they'd restricted gun sales to over 21s which apparently Trump agrees with, it would have been far harder for Nikolas Cruz to purchase his weapon. If it just prevents one murder but not all murders, restricting to over-21s is still worth trying. There's no downside unless you sell weapons to teenagers for a living.

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Whilst Trump gushes adoringly in support of the politicians' cash cow that is the NRA

"Wayne, Chris and the folks who work so hard at the @NRA are Great People and Great American Patriots. They love our Country and will do the right thing."

American brands are dropping the gunmakers' favourite organisation after consumer pressure but TV platforms like Amazon and Apple offer the NRA app.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...b01e9e56bb57af

Originally Posted by Mick

Also....Giving guns to teachers came from a suggestion from a parent of a survivor at that listening meeting on Wednesday, because guns are not going anywhere, I’ve explained why many times now. It is too late in America to ban guns, there is simply too many in circulation.

The NRA have been wanting teachers to have guns for years. NRA likes more guns. It's ridiculous to have teachers walking around schools with guns but once again the NRA wins.

So when another school shooting happens and the armed teacher kills an innocent student in the crossfire(assuming the teacher doesn't have an assault rifle in which case more than one could be innocent victims) is that OK? One life to save others?

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

So when another school shooting happens and the armed teacher kills an innocent student in the crossfire(assuming the teacher doesn't have an assault rifle in which case more than one could be innocent victims) is that OK? One life to save others?

There seems to be a low regard for life in the US. Let face it, they accept executing innocent people, particularly if they're poor and black.

Trump condemns gun-free zones at CPAC (Conservative Political Action Conference).

CPAC applauds wildly.

CPAC is a gun-free zone...

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Originally Posted by Mick

It happened again and again under former Presidents..... what did they do to stand up to the NRA?

They are powerful and have been for a long time...because they have been allowed to get that way... I did not see past Presidents do much to curb their powerful hold...

Are they cowards too? Or are you just being your usual hypocrite self because it gives you another chance to have another pop at Trump?

And btw... That was no public servant. He apparently stood outside listening to kids get shot to death. He neglected his duty as a law enforcement official. Too right he was fired or resigned his post.

Also....Giving guns to teachers came from a suggestion from a parent of a survivor at that listening meeting on Wednesday, because guns are not going anywhere, I’ve explained why many times now. It is too late in America to ban guns, there is simply too many in circulation.

It’s not about banning guns, it’s about putting more controls in place.

According to Trump, there’s too many illegal immigrants in America, but he’s going to do something about that - why not apply the same logic to guns?

Originally Posted by Damien

The NRA have been wanting teachers to have guns for years. NRA likes more guns. It's ridiculous to have teachers walking around schools with guns but once again the NRA wins.

Of course it is. But we are looking at this from a UK perspective. I’ve said it’s never an ideal situation, it’s crazy but in a ‘gun’ ridden country, where guns are not going anywhere, what’s the next best solution?

Is allowing a deranged kid being able to walk in to a school in the US, unchallenged and having no resistance with a powerful gun for minutes until swat teams arrive?

Would I have my son, in a defenceless situation with folk running for cover and not having anyone on site to take the shooter down?

Absolutely not. This is a real consideration I have to weigh up, if I do decide to live in States in next few years and my son comes with me.

I’d prefer there to be no guns at all, like here.

It’s too late to ban guns in US, with 330,000,000 of them in circulation. How does one huge country manage to ensure every gun is removed from everyone?

I’ve asked this many times and no one seems able to say how it can be realistically achieved and forcing every gun owner to willingly part with their guns? How?

That’s just repeating a NRA talking point - no one is saying people have to give up guns, just to have more controls in place.

Originally Posted by Mr K

There seems to be a low regard for life in the US. Let face it, they accept executing innocent people, particularly if they're poor and black.

That’s a ridiculous assertion, for a start, 19 States don’t have the death penalty.

There were 23 Executions in US in 2017.

13 White.
8 Black.
2 Hispanic.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...States_in_2017

In 2016, there was 20 Executions.

16 White
2 Black
2 Hispanic.

That’s why your assertion of more blacks being executed, is ridiculous. But facts has never really been your strong point, has it Mr K?

Trying to insert some racist agenda in the justice system, is a bit low even for you, especially when it’s not the case as the above numbers actually show.

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Originally Posted by Hugh

That’s just repeating a NRA talking point - no one is saying people have to give up guns, just to have more controls in place.

No that’s my view. I don’t copy any body’s view. I don’t agree with guns at all, that’s not an NRA talking point is it?

So you mention controls...

..Such as ?

Trumps considered...

Bump stocks getting banned.
Age restrictions.
Realistic and stronger mental health background checks.

Acting on known intel. So many things were ignored about Nikolas Cruz, it was a totally preventable this attack.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

That’s a ridiculous assertion, for a start, 19 States don’t have the death penalty.

There were 23 Executions in US in 2017.

13 White.
8 Black.
2 Hispanic.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...States_in_2017

In 2016, there was 20 Executions.

16 White
2 Black
2 Hispanic.

That’s why your assertion of more blacks being executed, is ridiculous. But facts has never really been your strong point, has it Mr K?

Trying to insert some racist agenda in the justice system, is a bit low even for you, especially when it’s not the case as the above numbers actually show.

It's obviously not about absolute numbers but the chances of being executed in the US are higher if you're black than white as the country is composed of 13% black people and 72% white people.
So, a proportionate number of executions in 2017 would have been more like 17 white (not 13) and 3 black (not 8). We would need to track back over several years to see a full picture.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

It's obviously not about absolute numbers but the chances of being executed in the US are higher if you're black than white as the country is composed of 13% black people and 72% white people.
So, a proportionate number of executions in 2017 would have been more like 17 white (not 13) and 3 black (not 8). We would need to track back over several years to see a full picture.

Erm, Hello? Of course it is about absolute numbers, I’ve just posted them with a credible source. Those are the numbers.

I’ve just highlighted data which totally blows this racist assertion that more blacks are executed. It’s not the case at all.

So far this year, 3 White, 1 Black has been executed. And these are folk who have been on death row for a long time.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

No that’s my view. I don’t copy any body’s view.

I think we all do, inadvertently but no one can recognise it in themselves. You won't be the last person to be accused of being Trump's official spokesman but behind every wise crack there may be an element of truth, however exaggerated. That's why it's important that we all should read/watch broadly from The Guardian to The Telegraph, from Sky News to the BBC and be sceptical of press releases and videos from Trump, the NRA, Corbyn, Nick Clegg etc.

Originally Posted by Mick

It’s too late to ban guns in US, with 330,000,000 of them in circulation. How does one huge country manage to ensure every gun is removed from everyone?

I’ve asked this many times and no one seems able to say how it can be realistically achieved and forcing every gun owner to willingly part with their guns? How?

That's a false choice. No one believes that can happen.

What can be done is better control on the guns sold now. You can start by registering each gun to a person, have a waiting period and mental health checks, and enforce it federally so no state can have an exemption. It shouldn't be easier to buy a gun than drive a car.

It's not going to stop every attack but over time restricting the use of guns and making sure that any gun is registered to a specific person might help stop them circulating around so freely.

Guns in the classroom is an insane idea that was the content of satire not that long ago. There are all sorts of things that could go wrong when you increase the numbers of guns around children. Whose going to be to blame when those guns are fired at someone who is not a mass killer? Either because of panic, a breakdown or a confrontation that gets out of hand?

The NRA probably can't believe their luck that yet another mass school shooting is going to give them one of their prized ambitions.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I think we all do, inadvertently but no one can recognise it in themselves. You won't be the last person to be accused of being Trump's official spokesman but behind every wise crack there may be an element of truth, however exaggerated. That's why it's important that we all should read/watch broadly from The Guardian to The Telegraph, from Sky News to the BBC and be sceptical of press releases and videos from Trump, the NRA, Corbyn, Nick Clegg etc.

People can accuse me of what they want, they are wrong and I will challenge them on stuff that is not accurate.

I have no intention of reading a crappy far left rag, such as the guardian. Not a chance. Don’t buy The Sun or any other form of newspaper. I don’t know how many more times I have to state this. They are a waste of money. By the time they are printed and distributed, they are old news.

I don’t watch press releases of any political party or leader either.

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Originally Posted by Damien

That's a false choice. No one believes that can happen.

What can be done is better control on the guns sold now. You can start by registering each gun to a person, have a waiting period and mental health checks, and enforce it federally so no state can have an exemption. It shouldn't be easier to buy a gun than drive a car.

It's not going to stop every attack but over time restricting the use of guns and making sure that any gun is registered to a specific person might help stop them circulating around so freely.

Guns in the classroom is an insane idea that was the content of satire not that long ago. There are all sorts of things that could go wrong when you increase the numbers of guns around children. Whose going to be to blame when those guns are fired at someone who is not a mass killer? Either because of panic, a breakdown or a confrontation that gets out of hand?

The NRA probably can't believe their luck that yet another mass school shooting is going to give them one of their prized ambitions.

Damien, what and how many times do I have to state, I don’t agree with guns...?

I don’t agree with them. At all. Is that any more clearer?

There has to be some protections against an attack, in a gun ridden country.

You mention extra restrictions on new gun purchases. That does not solve the guns already in circulation and owned, how are people going to be forced to register on a compulsory order... there will be a riot and civil disobedience, if people are forced to either hand over their guns or have extra registry checks.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

Damien, what and how many times do I have to state, I don’t agree with guns...?

I don’t agree with them. At all. Is that any more clearer?

There has to be some protections against an attack, in a gun ridden country.

You mention extra restrictions on new gun purchases. That does not solve the guns already in circulation and owned, how are people going to be forced to register on a compulsory order... there will be a riot and civil disobedience, if people are forced to either hand over their guns or have extra registry checks.

What I'm confused about is that you don't agree with guns and then state there has to be some sort of protection against attack in a gun-ridden country. What do you mean by the second part of this sentence?

I don't think it's realistic to ask everyone to hand in their guns but no one is proposing that. Stop the sale to teenagers and mentally unwell people and you will reduce some attacks. Every life saved is worthwhile.

[Mr K]

The crazy situation we've got is Trump proposing more guns is the solution. It's mad, we all know it is. It's difficult not to conclude the NRA has a hold over him.