Will Scotland Leave the UK?

[Carth]

Originally Posted by jfman

The UK Government are already planning for the possibility.

Closing all the Pubs, and banning fans from football matches isn't anything to do with Scottish independence mate, sorry

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

It played for me but let's look at the first line of what jfman said

My take is that polticians and political parties can't bind future Parliaments. So politicians pronouncing "once in a lifetime" or "once in a generation" has no legal standing, it's just spin or an interpretation of how they believe the situation is.

Well, we all know you have no morals when it comes to respecting the Democratic will.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

Well, we all know you have no morals when it comes to respecting the Democratic will.

I've always accepted democratic votes. Be it Biden's win or Brexit, I have always accepted them. For better or worse.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Mick

Well, we all know you have no morals when it comes to respecting the Democratic will.

Guess you'll be respecting the wishes of the Scottish people in the upcoming elections , and the mandate of the resulting Scottish Govt. then ?

Originally Posted by Mr K

Guess you'll be respecting the wishes of the Scottish people in the upcoming elections , and the mandate of the resulting Scottish Govt. then ?

I already respect their wish as per 2014 referendum. Did SNP have a similar lead in 2014 only to lose their pathetic independence referendum?

Originally Posted by jfman

Has no legal standing, which you absolutely know so I don't know why you persist in contesting it..

Not the point, and never was. Such a pity that the separatist movement has descended so quickly into the very weasel-worded duplicity it accuses Westminster politicians of.

[Carth]

weasel-worded duplicity

What a brilliant phrase, and to be fair it covers everything from Politics to Pizza Deliveries

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Chris

Not the point, and never was. Such a pity that the separatist movement has descended so quickly into the very weasel-worded duplicity it accuses Westminster politicians of.

It’s entirely the point. No generation of voters is permitted to bind the rights of the following generations in this manner, any more than the voters that put us into the EU could be entitled to claim we could not withdraw. Are you claiming that the mandate for a referendum would be stronger if a party other than the SNP led the calls and won the election?

What is unusual is that the proposal is for a referendum closer to 10 years after the previous one. However if that’s what people vote for they are entitled to time and time again until people get bored of it. If the opposition are ineffective at portraying that as a waste of time, or distracting from getting on with day to day business, or portraying their own vision for Scotland within the devolution settlement then that’s unlikely to change.

It was once in a generation vote. Not my words, the pathetic separatists in the SNP.

[heero_yuy]

Quote from The Sun:

Nicola Sturgeon misled Scottish Parliament during the unlawful Alex Salmond sexual harassment probe, an investigation has concluded.

And the First Minister faces a fight for her political life - and will face a vote of no confidence at 10am today.

The Holyrood inquiry published its findings this morning - hours after James Hamilton QC's report revealed the First Minister hadn't breached the ministerial code.

Investigators have been compiling a report into the claims for two years. Their findings were released this morning.

And their report says they "find it hard to believe" that Ms Sturgeon had "no knowledge of any concerns about inappropriate behaviour on the part of Mr Salmond prior to November 2017".

What does the report say?

Ms Sturgeon DID mislead a Scottish Parliament committee
Authors of a new report "find it hard to believe" that Ms Sturgeon had "no knowledge of any concerns about inappropriate behaviour on the part of Mr Salmond prior to November 2017"
The report picks up on "conflicting evidence" about a meeting between Ms Sturgeon and Mr Salmond in April 2018. Ms Sturgeon says this was the first time she knew about the allegations
The inquiry has found Mr Salmond was left with the impression Ms Sturgeon would 'intervene' on his behalf after that meeting - something she vehemently denies
It also raised concerns that Ms Sturgeon didn't disclose details of the meeting with Mr Salmond to Scottish Government's most senior civil servant, Permanent Secretary Leslie Evans, until June 6 2018
Mr Salmond was cleared of all 13 charges against him following a trial

So who are we to believe: James Hamilton, who may have been "got at", or a full committee formed from all political persuasions?

The Greens will cosy up to the Nats to defeat a vote of no confidence but the stench will continue.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

So who are we to believe: James Hamilton, who may have been "got at", or a full committee formed from all political persuasions?

The Greens will cosy up to the Nats to defeat a vote of no confidence but the stench will continue.

One source of information you can't believe is The Sun..

As ever, let the people decide. Democracy is only welcomed if it gives the 'right' result.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by jfman

It’s entirely the point. No generation of voters is permitted to bind the rights of the following generations in this manner, any more than the voters that put us into the EU could be entitled to claim we could not withdraw. Are you claiming that the mandate for a referendum would be stronger if a party other than the SNP led the calls and won the election?

What is unusual is that the proposal is for a referendum closer to 10 years after the previous one. However if that’s what people vote for they are entitled to time and time again until people get bored of it. If the opposition are ineffective at portraying that as a waste of time, or distracting from getting on with day to day business, or portraying their own vision for Scotland within the devolution settlement then that’s unlikely to change.

There are plenty of examples of where we are eternally bound by decisions of a previous vote. Eg we couldn't undo selected parts of the Lisbon Treaty or any other directive or ruling, it was all or nothing. Even that wasn't an option prior to the Lisbon Treaty. Article 50 didn't exist before then. Another example is the Barnett Formula. Meant to be a temporary measure, and has NO legal basis, other than convention. No chance that it would ever be revoked.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Mr K

One source of information you can't believe is The Sun..

As ever, let the people decide. Democracy is only welcomed if it gives the 'right' result.

Well you're the expert on that

[jfman]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

So who are we to believe: James Hamilton, who may have been "got at", or a full committee formed from all political persuasions?

The Greens will cosy up to the Nats to defeat a vote of no confidence but the stench will continue.

The expectation (Guardian) is that Labour will not vote on the VonC so I assume they are "got at"?

---------- Post added at 10:54 ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 ----------

Originally Posted by Mick

It was once in a generation vote. Not my words, the pathetic separatists in the SNP.

It'll happen if the SNP win a majority whether England wants it or not. They know it's untenable.

Note that I say "if the SNP win a majority" so if you cast it up, like observations on Brexit, in a few years time that it accurately represents my opinion on how I see it playing out. Whether I'd vote for or against independence is irrelevant to my view it's untenable.

Originally Posted by Mr K

One source of information you can't believe is The Sun..

As ever, let the people decide. Democracy is only welcomed if it gives the 'right' result.

OMFG, did you really just come out with this hypocrisy bullshit.

You have no right to say this given the absolute shit you’ve spouted since Brexit vote. You’re a hypocrite Mr K, through and through.

---------- Post added at 11:49 ---------- Previous post was at 11:46 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

The expectation (Guardian) is that Labour will not vote on the VonC so I assume they are "got at"?

---------- Post added at 10:54 ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 ----------



It'll happen if the SNP win a majority whether England wants it or not. They know it's untenable.

Note that I say "if the SNP win a majority" so if you cast it up, like observations on Brexit, in a few years time that it accurately represents my opinion on how I see it playing out. Whether I'd vote for or against independence is irrelevant to my view it's untenable.

As said by the SNP: “It was once in a generation vote.” I’ll keep saying it until it sinks in.