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Glad I don't live in the US of A
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Old 16-03-2019, 12:36   #16
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Re: Glad I don't live in the US of A

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Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
Frederick Banting gave insulin to the world for free as he recognised the benefit to mankind not so three companies could make fortunes out of sick people
So you think they should be manufactured for free?
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Old 16-03-2019, 12:37   #17
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Re: Glad I don't live in the US of A

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
So you think they should be manufactured for free?
He didnít say that...
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Old 16-03-2019, 12:40   #18
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Re: Glad I don't live in the US of A

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Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
He didnít say that...
Well, that was the implication. As for whether they are over-priced, perhaps they are. But like most things, the reasons for that perception may not take account of all the facts.
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Old 16-03-2019, 12:43   #19
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Re: Glad I don't live in the US of A

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Why don't other companies like GlaxoSmithKline, Merck and Pfizer enter the market then, assuming great profits are to be had if there are monopoly providers setting prices?
From my previous link
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3. Pay-for-Delay Schemes & Lawsuits

A ‘Pay for delay’ agreement is a patent dispute settlement in which a generic (in the case of insulin, a biosimilar) manufacturer acknowledges the original patent of a pharmaceutical company and agrees to refrain from marketing its product for a specific period of time. In return, the company receives a payment from the patent-holder. This means it is actually legal for one insulin producer to pay another one not to enter the market. A few years ago the company Merck announced plans to sell a biosimilar version of Sanofi’s Lantus. Sanofi sued, and eventually Merck announced that it was no longer pursuing it’s biosimilar, presumably due to payments from Sanofi to stay away. If Pay for delay schemes don’t work, the ‘big three’ can still sue other players, prolonging processes and pushing players out of the market because of legal fees and time-wasting. All of these are win-wins for companies, and lose-lose for patients.

4. Patents

Why aren’t we seeing more companies making insulin? There are many reasons for this, but patent evergreening is a big one. Patents give a person or organization a monopoly on a particular invention for a specific period of time. In the USA, it is generally 20 years. Humalog, Lantus and other previous generation insulins are now off patent, as are even older animal based insulins. So what’s going on? Pharmaceutical companies take advantage of loopholes in the U.S. patent system to build thickets of patents around their drugs which will make them last much longer (evergreening). This prevents competition and can keep prices high for decades. Our friends at I-MAK recently showed that Sanofi, the maker of Lantus, is no exception. Sanofi has filed 74 patent applications on Lantus alone, that means Sanofi has created the potential for a competition-free monopoly for 37 years.


---------- Post added at 12:43 ---------- Previous post was at 12:41 ----------

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Well, that was the implication. As for whether they are over-priced, perhaps they are. But like most things, the reasons for that perception may not take account of all the facts.
That’s your implication, not (necessarily*) his.

I read from it that it was to be produced at low/reasonable profit margin - differing views provide different implications.

My brother-in-law currently works as a research VP for a US biosimilar company, and has been on medical drugs research for nearly 40 years (including over 20 years as a research Director/VP at Pfizer and Teva, two of the biggest drugs companies in the world), and he said that Insulin is used by the 3 drug companies as a cash cow, as the manufacturing costs haven’t risen that much in the last 20 years, but the market price has increased by 8-10 times the original price in 2000.

(*I’m not a mind reader, so it’s only my interpretation of his interpretation...)
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Last edited by Hugh; 16-03-2019 at 12:52.
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Old 16-03-2019, 13:22   #20
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Re: Glad I don't live in the US of A

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Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
Maybe because 3 companies manufacture 90% of all the worldís insulin, and they set the prices in each market?

https://www.t1international.com/blog...-so-expensive/

The Australian government subsidises their insulin.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/he...2eb3e235657c6a
The study I was using came a year before that announcement, and if I reading this correctly they used the unsubsidised prices, ie what the Australian government pays.

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Prices were expressed as a Median Price Ratio (MPR) i.e. a ratio of the local price to a standard set of international reference prices (IRPs). Thus, MPRs describe how much greater or less the price of an insulin product is compared to the IRP. The WHO/HAI methodology recommends Management Sciences for Healthís International Drug Price Indicator Guide as the source of the international reference price (IRP). However, the Guide does not include prices for analogue insulins so was of limited value. Therefore, prices from the Australia Pharmaceutical Benefit Scheme (PBS) [27] were used as IRPs. PBS prices represented reimbursement prices paid by the Australian government. We standardized all prices (PBS and the prices collected in Hubei) to US$ for 1000 IU insulin then calculated the MPRs.
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Old 16-03-2019, 16:52   #21
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Re: Glad I don't live in the US of A

Whilst Big Pharma plays its games, it's the USA health insurance companies that are the real villains.
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Old 16-03-2019, 22:24   #22
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Re: Glad I don't live in the US of A

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Well, that was the implication. As for whether they are over-priced, perhaps they are. But like most things, the reasons for that perception may not take account of all the facts.
No it wasn't...
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Old 18-03-2019, 09:05   #23
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Re: Glad I don't live in the US of A

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Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
From my previous link

---------- Post added at 12:43 ---------- Previous post was at 12:41 ----------

Thatís your implication, not (necessarily*) his.

I read from it that it was to be produced at low/reasonable profit margin - differing views provide different implications.

My brother-in-law currently works as a research VP for a US biosimilar company, and has been on medical drugs research for nearly 40 years (including over 20 years as a research Director/VP at Pfizer and Teva, two of the biggest drugs companies in the world), and he said that Insulin is used by the 3 drug companies as a cash cow, as the manufacturing costs havenít risen that much in the last 20 years, but the market price has increased by 8-10 times the original price in 2000.

(*Iím not a mind reader, so itís only my interpretation of his interpretation...)
Interestingly, insulin is not regarded as a biological, along with human growth hormone under the Public Health Service Act in the US even though technically, they are. Because of this, the biosimilar abbreviated approval process cannot apply for insulin which means that a pharma company has to go through the whole drugs approval process including clinical trials etc.

This is hoped to change in 2020. Here's the FDAs position - https://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsr.../ucm628121.htm
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