Brexit (Old)

Originally Posted by Mick

Brexiteers have not had a chance to promote a plan with a Remain led Government and Civil servants, so he was talking absolute bollocks as usual.

The problem is though they could have shared the plan they had. It is a secret still for some reason.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

He didn't actually say that, that quote is probably a fake news site stirring things up. I would have agreed you if he had said that.

It is not fake - he said it, ALL Brexiteers promote Brexit - that is what makes them a Brexiteer , sheesh the sheer arrogance of the man.

What a total utter moron EUCO President is. Yet as usual, the Remainers come to the rescue and defense of the disgusting and undemocratic EU empire, while they mock us so openly.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

He didn't actually say that, that quote is probably a fake news site stirring things up. I would have agreed you if he had said that.

Here's what he actually said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47143135

"Wonders what a special place in hell looks like for Brexiteers who promoted Brexit without a plan."

If you are a Brexiteer, you promote Brexit.

We have a plan - it's called leaving the cancerous and corrupted EU in it's entirety!!!

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Mick

"Wonders what a special place in hell looks like for Brexiteers who promoted Brexit without a plan."

If you are a Brexiteer, you promote Brexit.

We have a plan - it's called leaving the cancerous and corrupted EU in it's entirety!!!

Exactly.

[nomadking]

Impossible to have a Brexit plan when anything you could come up with depends on what the EU allows us to do.

[jonbxx]

I thought it might be worth popping in after Donald Tusks words today (what is it about Donalds eh?) I don't know if anyone has been watching Inside Europe: Ten Years of Turmoil on BBC2 over the last couple of weeks which has been fascinating BTW. Donald Tusk certainly comes across as blunt in that program so what he said today was not altogether surprising.

There seems to be a collective losing of rags on Twitter about what was said but if there's a plan, it looks like people are getting angry vicariously

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

I thought it might be worth popping in after Donald Tusks words today (what is it about Donalds eh?) I don't know if anyone has been watching Inside Europe: Ten Years of Turmoil on BBC2 over the last couple of weeks which has been fascinating BTW. Donald Tusk certainly comes across as blunt in that program so what he said today was not altogether surprising.

There seems to be a collective losing of rags on Twitter about what was said but if there's a plan, it looks like people are getting angry vicariously

Yes a good insight into the EU.

As for Tusk he's just showing off to his new best mate.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Extending the backstop to all of the UK was an EU concession to help May sell her deal to the DUP.

I doubt Brexiteers would be happy with this though as it would be considered too close to the EU. The whole thing is stirring up things best left alone eg there are now calls for a vote on unifying Ireland.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Damien

The problem is though they could have shared the plan they had. It is a secret still for some reason.

They had no plan. It was quite deliberate - see:

https://dominiccummings.com/2015/06/...nd-referendum/

Written in 2015 by Dominic Cummings, the brains behind the Leave campaign. He quite clearly articulates why the Leave campaign cannot have a plan in order to win the vote:

3) Does NO need to have a unified plan for exit? A Government trying to leave the EU obviously needs an exit plan. The SNP needed an exit plan. But the NO campaign is neither a political party nor a government. It has no locus to negotiate a new deal. Does it need an exit plan, or does that simply provide an undefendable target and open an unwinnable debate for a non-government entity?

A. Creating an exit plan that makes sense and which all reasonable people could unite around seems an almost insuperable task. Eurosceptic groups have been divided for years about many of the basic policy and political questions.

B. Even if one succeeded, the sheer complexity of leaving would involve endless questions of detail that cannot be answered in such a plan even were it to be 20,000 pages long, and the longer it is the more errors are likely. On top of the extremely complex policy issues is a feedback loop – constructing such a plan depends partly on inherently uncertain assumptions about what is politically sellable in a referendum, making it even harder to rally support behind a plan.

C. There is much to be gained by swerving the whole issue.

Tusk is so right:

there is "special place in hell" for "those who promoted Brexit without even a sketch of a plan of how to carry it out safely"

Of course the truth would be unpalatable to some but at some point you need to face this truth.

---------- Post added at 17:06 ---------- Previous post was at 17:01 ----------

Originally Posted by jonbxx

but if there's a plan, it looks like people are getting angry vicariously

As there was no plan, there is nothing vicarious about it. These people deliberately constructed the biggest con trick in history: redefine the entire economic & structural fabric of the country with no plan, based on a campaign of lies, rule breaking and deceit.

Originally Posted by ianch99

They had no plan. It was quite deliberate - see:

https://dominiccummings.com/2015/06/...nd-referendum/

Written in 2015 by Dominic Cummings, the brains behind the Leave campaign. He quite clearly articulates why the Leave campaign cannot have a plan in order to win the vote

Cummings is quite right, which is precisely why it’s bananas to condemn the Leave campaign for not having a plan. It was never their job to have a plan. It was actually David Cameron’s - his government called the referendum and should have been prepared for all possible outcomes. There were only two possible outcomes after all.

Tusk is so right:

No he isn’t. It isn’t the job of any senior foreign politician to make moral judgments about the democratic campaigns and votes held within sovereign, democratic nation states. That he has done so, and quite deliberately, speaks volumes about the Messiah complex that plagues the EU’s institutions and is one of the many reasons why Leave was the best outcome for country’s long term prosperity.

As there was no plan, there is nothing vicarious about it. These people deliberately constructed the biggest con trick in history: redefine the entire economic & structural fabric of the country with no plan, based on a campaign of lies, rule breaking and deceit.

You are of course at liberty to continue to tell yourself that Leave voters were all deluded, conned, duped or whatever. Ultimately that will only feed into your own sense of national identity and make you feel miserable. It’s your problem. But should you ever feel like rejoining reality, you would be most welcome.

[djfunkdup]

Originally Posted by Chris

You are of course at liberty to continue to tell yourself that Leave voters were all deluded, conned, duped or whatever. Ultimately that will only feed into your own sense of national identity and make you feel miserable. It’s your problem. But should you ever feel like rejoining reality, you would be most welcome.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Chris

Cummings is quite right, which is precisely why it’s bananas to condemn the Leave campaign for not having a plan. It was never their job to have a plan. It was actually David Cameron’s - his government called the referendum and should have been prepared for all possible outcomes. There were only two possible outcomes after all.



No he isn’t. It isn’t the job of any senior foreign politician to make moral judgments about the democratic campaigns and votes held within sovereign, democratic nation states. That he has done so, and quite deliberately, speaks volumes about the Messiah complex that plagues the EU’s institutions and is one of the many reasons why Leave was the best outcome for country’s long term prosperity.



You are of course at liberty to continue to tell yourself that Leave voters were all deluded, conned, duped or whatever. Ultimately that will only feed into your own sense of national identity and make you feel miserable. It’s your problem. But should you ever feel like rejoining reality, you would be most welcome.

Yet again we disagree If you believe that there were only "only two possible outcomes" then your delusion is complete. The fault for this mess is solely at the feet of those who orchestrated it. Simple. You may wish to wish this away but you will need to face it one day.

He has every right to make a judgment if the crass incompetence of the UK authorities affects the lives and prosperity of the citizens he represents. I am afraid bad decisions have consequences that need to be owned by the people who are responsible.

We are all in this reality that this shambles has led us to. You are proud of it, fine but don't patronise the rest of us who said this was going to happen.

It was a binary vote - the outcome could only be either leave or remain. The government pledged in materials published prior to the vote that it would implement the outcome. The only body that can possibly be held accountable for not planning at all for both of the possible outcomes of the vote called by HMG is HMG, specifically the government led by David Cameron until 2016.

---------- Post added at 19:37 ---------- Previous post was at 19:21 ----------

... and if you’re suggesting Tusk was aiming his comments at the “authorities” you’re giving his words a spin he did not - he aimed his comments at Brexiteers, not May’s government or the civil service.

Originally Posted by Chris

It was a binary vote - the outcome could only be either leave or remain. The government pledged in materials published prior to the vote that it would implement the outcome. The only body that can possibly be held accountable for not planning at all for both of the possible outcomes of the vote called by HMG is HMG, specifically the government led by David Cameron until 2016.

---------- Post added at 19:37 ---------- Previous post was at 19:21 ----------

... and if you’re suggesting Tusk was aiming his comments at the “authorities” you’re giving his words a spin he did not - he aimed his comments at Brexiteers, not May’s government or the civil service.

At Brexiters who promoted leaving without a plan...

"those who promoted Brexit without even a sketch of a plan of how to carry it out safely".