Brexit (Old)

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

How were we forced to accept freedom of movement? We signed the Maastricht Treaty willingly. We signed off on Directive 2004/38/EC willingly. Hell, we knew about freedom of movement established in the treaties of Paris (1951) and Rome (1957) before we even joined the EEC as was. Nothing has been forced upon the UK here.

Of course, the freedom of movement established by 2004/38/EC puts limitations of three months to stay after which citizens must be working or the dependent of a worker or be financially self sufficient. The UK has never enforced this properly. Rules in place do not allow benefit tourism for EU citizens if the UK wanted to enforce them.

1. The original freedom of movement was of workers.

2. That was before the Eastern European states joined the EU. The scale of the impact of freedom of movement changed dramatically as a result.

3. I don't remember being asked and now that we have been it has proved to be pointless/meaningless.

4. How would we overturn it, other than by leaving altogether?

5. All they do is be involved with a one-off collection of scrap or sell one copy of the "Big Issue" and any restrictions go away.

6. How was it ever possible to deport them?

7. In any initial period and the never ending sets of appeals they would still receive housing, benefits, NHS treatment etc.

8. After 5 years of residence there is no restrictions of any sort.
9. Once just one person is here that fulfils any requirements, then any family members also acquire those rights.

Originally Posted by jfman

You haven’t actuallly proved any of your assertions, which is why we haven’t moved on from the point. I don’t really care for the distinction between racism and xenophobia either way it’s ignorance of the facts.

Neither have you. All you have done is quote the usual irritating repetitive soundbites that have no real affiliation to this topic.

Voting for Brexit was NOT racist or xenophobic and I do not want to see you raise this issue or accuse anybody of being so again in this thread.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by nomadking

1. The original freedom of movement was of workers. - true, it has now been extended to students and family members of workers but the income or self supporting status still exists

2. That was before the Eastern European states joined the EU. The scale of the impact of freedom of movement changed dramatically as a result. - The UK government signed off on the accession of the A10 countries. There was a temprorary brake on free movement from these countries that the UK decided not to use

3. I don't remember being asked and now that we have been it has proved to be pointless/meaningless. - successive governments have followed the policy of allowing and wanting free movement. I am not sure what you mean by pointless/meaningless

4. How would we overturn it, other than by leaving altogether? - If you want to stop free movement of EU citizens as defined by TFEU and directive 2004/38/EC, then you hve to leave the EU pretty much. If you want to get stricter on what EU citizens can claim in benefits, then we need to look back to what David Cameron got in 2016 (no JSA for 3 months, phase in of in work benefits over 4 years)

5. All they do is be involved with a one-off collection of scrap or sell one copy of the "Big Issue" and any restrictions go away. - if they are 'employed' then there's no issue. If you have been working for less than a year, you can only get benefits for 6 months and show you are an active job seeker

6. How was it ever possible to deport them? - Directive 2004/38/EC allows member states to deport on public policy issues such as becoming an unnecessary burden on the state

7. In any initial period and the never ending sets of appeals they would still receive housing, benefits, NHS treatment etc. - not true, benefits are time limited

8. After 5 years of residence there is no restrictions of any sort. - yep, just as non EEA citizens. My american colleague has just been given leave to remain

9. Once just one person is here that fulfils any requirements, then any family members also acquire those rights. - not quite, spouses/civil partners, children and grandchildren under 21 are covered. Other family members need to show that they are supported by the worker. If the initial migrant loses their right to reside, then all dependents do too

Source of most of my info BTW - https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/be...esidence-test/

[Carth]

Britain is set to lose tens of millions of pounds in tax revenues after Sir James Dyson, one of the country’s most prominent Brexit supporters, announced plans to relocate the headquarters of his company to Singapore.

The business said that Asia was now the main focus of its activities and that it should be regarded as a “global technology company”.

The move is likely to cost the government up to £60 million a year in lost corporation tax revenues.

£60 million a year from just one business . . . it makes you wonder how much has been lost over the years since manufacturing was 'thrown out' by previous Governments who decided the financial sector was a better option

[jonbxx]

Interestingly, we had a missive come out at work today regarding immigration and free movement. There has been an amendment to the posted workers directive which impacts companies with branches across the EU. It stops employers shipping in employees from other countries to work and paying less than the minimums allowed in their new host country.

For example, Lithuania has a minimum wage of €2.32/h. Multinationals cannot ship in a load of Lithuanian employees for some work in Germany which pays a minimum of €8.48. It's just pay either, all work conditions should match the minimums of the host country or employees home country, which ever is the higher.

Note that this is posted workers, not migrants

[RichardCoulter]

I think that a lot of people are getting tired of Brexit now, the danger is that the wrong decisions will be reached as people just want to get it over and done with.

This man was been taken to court for putting up Christmas lights that were deemed to be offensive! Warning, this link may offend some people:

https://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/n...ourt-1-9538349

[papa smurf]

Police called in as Grimsby MP Melanie Onn told she is a 'traitor' who should be 'gunned down' for ruling out second Brexit referendum


Grimsby voted by 70 per cent to leave the European Union at the 2016 referendum and Ms Onn believes attitudes in the town have not significantly shifted since then.

https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/n...s-vote-2460087

Disgusting behaviour- hopefully prosecutions will happen.

[denphone]

Lets hope so as only one in eight hate crimes result in a suspect being charged or a witness being summonsed to appear in court sadly but hopefully they will be able prosecute this person..

https://fullfact.org/crime/hate-crim...and-and-wales/

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Disgusting behaviour- hopefully prosecutions will happen.

It's Grimsby mate she'll be lucky to get a crime number,must say though it's quite disturbing the lengths people will go to,still she grew up on a tough estate she won't be frightened off by this.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Carth

£60 million a year from just one business . . . it makes you wonder how much has been lost over the years since manufacturing was 'thrown out' by previous Governments who decided the financial sector was a better option

Mrs Thatcher is the answer to your question.

---------- Post added at 19:37 ---------- Previous post was at 19:31 ----------

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

I think that a lot of people are getting tired of Brexit now, the danger is that the wrong decisions will be reached as people just want to get it over and done with.
]

Yes people do have a very short attention span. Those immigrants are still here providing public services and paying taxes, because we're too old and lazy, wtf is going on !

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Mrs Thatcher is the answer to your question.[COLOR="Silver"]

All roads lead to Thatcher.

Smallpox, aids, bubonic plague, thalidomide, the Profumo affair, the assassination of arch duke Ferdinand, the annexation of Poland, then Cold War and herpes

All down to the Iron Lady.

And soylent green. That was her idea too.

Thatcher is the reason that tourists in London stand on the left or walk slowly spread out in a perfect line occupying the entire pavement so you have to walk into the road to overtake them.

Also I would say moving to services are pretty successful for the UK.....

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Yes people do have a very short attention span. Those immigrants are still here providing public services and paying taxes, because we're too old and lazy, wtf is going on !

This has been fully covered already, though I suspect you're now just being naughty ��

Chris made an interesting point in a different thread about Scottish independence ie that Salmond had said in 2013 that Scottish independence could be achieved 18 months after a referenfum win.

Brexit has shown how complicated these things actually are in reality.

I've heard one or two people say that they are leavers at heart, but they essentially believe that we are now so ingrained into the EU that it will be impossible to leave (at least completely).

Wasn't VAT introduced to pay for our contribution to the EU? If we leave and no longer have to pay into the EU every year, is there a case for abolishing this?