Brexit (Old)

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Dave42

general election incoming soon then

What a utterly shambolic state politics is in this country.

---------- Post added at 05:13 ---------- Previous post was at 05:11 ----------

Originally Posted by Mick

Leadership contest is in the pipeline, heard tonight Brexit back benchers are drafting letters to 1922 Committee.

Likely to be deeply frowned upon by the electorate.

---------- Post added at 05:16 ---------- Previous post was at 05:13 ----------

Originally Posted by Mick

Not necessarily. There wasn’t a GE called when Cameron resigned. Plus there is that little issue of the fixed term parliament act and I think people in U.K. are getting a little tired of elections.

Indeed but they will get even more fed it with a disunited party warring among themselves.

[heero_yuy]

Quote from Mick:


Not necessarily. There wasn’t a GE called when Cameron resigned. Plus there is that little issue of the fixed term parliament act and I think people in U.K. are getting a little tired of elections.

This lot are shambolic but do people really want the Venezuelan alternative?

Start queuing for bread and toilet paper.

[denphone]

Corbyn is a a very poor leader but if the electorate decide they have had of enough of this utterly shambolic lot then Bobs your uncle no matter how bad the opposition leader is IMO as the one thing the electorate do not like is deep disunity in a governing party...

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Mick

Leadership contest is in the pipeline, heard tonight Brexit back benchers are drafting letters to 1922 Committee.

At the end of the day Mick 'hard or no deal Brexiters' are in the vast minority. Both in the Conservative MPs and the country.

I know it's a disappointment but we're going to be 'aligned' to the EU following their rules, with no say. It's worse than now, but better than the hard-line no deal alternative.

The Brexiters didn't have a plan, which is unbelievable . The country has got itself into this mess, and we have to do the best we can. Those that voted for Brexit can't avoid some of the blame, they should really have thought it through rather than follow knee jerk populist tabloid headlines. However they were lied to massively by politicians now trying to save face and rescue their own careers.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by denphone

Likely to be deeply frowned upon by the electorate.

Agreed. The feedback I get from people I know who voted either way on Brexit is she's the best of a bad lot (across all parties), finally showed some leadership skills on Friday and whilst many don't agree with the decision, she has been elected and paid to lead the country and that's what they want her to do as it's how democracy should work in this country.

---------- Post added at 10:15 ---------- Previous post was at 10:08 ----------

Interesting to see the two themes that I mentioned earlier in the year coming together on Friday. The backstop agreement meant a soft Brexit and the Brexiters' lack of a plan meant there was no alternative to clinging tightly to the EU. Here's Sky News's take on why Theresa May triumphed on Friday.

One Tory MP told Sky News: "We've been mugged." In truth, the mugging took place not in July but in December, at the EU summit of that month. There, the PM agreed that there could be no hard border in Ireland and she would commit to a regulatory backstop (where both north and south would share EU regulations) if no other arrangements could be reached. At that point, the government's negotiating position was all but guaranteed to be one of a soft Brexit.
The Brexiteers also offered little in the way of an alternative plan. With those two advantages, the prime minister appears to hold her colleagues in check. The question is: Do they have another move left?

https://news.sky.com/story/boris-joh...-turd-11429837

Originally Posted by Mr K

At the end of the day Mick 'hard or no deal Brexiters' are in the vast minority. Both in the Conservative MPs and the country.

I know it's a disappointment but we're going to be 'aligned' to the EU following their rules, with no say. It's worse than now, but better than the hard-line no deal alternative.

The Brexiters didn't have a plan, which is unbelievable . The country has got itself into this mess, and we have to do the best we can. Those that voted for Brexit can't avoid some of the blame, they should really have thought it through rather than follow knee jerk populist tabloid headlines. However they were lied to massively by politicians now trying to save face and rescue their own careers.

I shun any blame because there is none. It is pathetic to call anybody or blame people who used their democratic right to vote one way or another - it is disgusting that blame is being levied on any one but that is very typical of you Mr K.

Brexit will happen because if it does not, it will be the biggest democratic let down in British history, many people will never vote again, ever and I will be one of them - do you really advocate mass voter apathy because that is what will happen?

Lastly - I made an instruction to stop referring to Brexiteers as "hard" or "extreme" - There is no such thing there is just Brexiteers, people who voted to leave answered one question, they voted to leave, this does not make them any other thing, so stop using such terms!!!

---------- Post added at 11:34 ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 ----------

Conservative Backbench backlash is growing over the Friday Chequeres Brexit meeting, with some Tory MP's suggesting this morning, they have no confidence in the Brexit deal and thus have no Confidence in Theresa May....

A Conservativehome snap survey suggests 3/5 Tory Members are unhappy with the deal.

https://www.conservativehome.com/the...r-britain.html

Originally Posted by Mick

IConservative Backbench backlash is growing over the Friday Chequeres Brexit meeting, with some Tory MP's suggesting this morning, they have no confidence in the Brexit deal and thus have no Confidence in Theresa May....

They either have the numbers or they don't so we'll see if enough of them send letters for the leadership contest or not.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

That’s your assumption, Dave, not reality. Overall, Brexit will do wonders for our economy.

Please can you help with the links that reinforce this statement, OB? Dave had plenty from various sources saying the opposite so it would be good for people to read the other side's view as well to get a full picture.
Many thanks.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Damien

They either have the numbers or they don't so we'll see if enough of them send letters for the leadership contest or not.

l suspect a lot of it is hot air.

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by denphone

l suspect a lot of it is hot air.

agree most of it will be

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Mick

I shun any blame because there is none. It is pathetic to call anybody or blame people who used their democratic right to vote one way or another - it is disgusting that blame is being levied on any one but that is very typical of you Mr K.

Brexit will happen because if it does not, it will be the biggest democratic let down in British history, many people will never vote again, ever and I will be one of them - do you really advocate mass voter apathy because that is what will happen?

Lastly - I made an instruction to stop referring to Brexiteers as "hard" or "extreme" - There is no such thing there is just Brexiteers, people who voted to leave answered one question, they voted to leave, this does not make them any other thing, so stop using such terms!!!

---------- Post added at 11:34 ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 ----------

Conservative Backbench backlash is growing over the Friday Chequeres Brexit meeting, with some Tory MP's suggesting this morning, they have no confidence in the Brexit deal and thus

A Conservativehome snap survey suggests 3/5 Tory Members are unhappy with the deal.

https://www.conservativehome.com/the...r-britain.html

So what ? conservative party numbers are a tiny ever declining number of OAPs. They don't represent the country or even those that voted for Brexit.

TM may fall as a result of Brexit, but if she's put the country ahead of her own career then good on her I say. The leadership of the Tories is a piffling issue. Seems others in her cabinet are now more concerned about their own ambitions than any Brexit red lines they once had.

Brexit, as we've seen, seems to mean a wide variety of things. Hence the need for the people to have the final say on the terms of any deal with the EU. This isnt a rerun of the referendum, it's a very different issue.

[pip08456]

I take it Mr_K that you expect the EU to accept the details in the white paper. If so dream on, it won't happen.

As I said (perhaps) thousands of posts ago Article 50 gives one option on trade. You leave, you're out. That does not preclude a future trade deal presumably during the 2yr transiion preiod. There is no such thing as hard or soft brexit. There is only brexit.

I think people expect the EU to come back on this deal yes, it's a starting position not the final proposal.

Originally Posted by pip08456

I take it Mr_K that you expect the EU to accept the details in the white paper. If so dream on, it won't happen.

As I said (perhaps) thousands of posts ago Article 50 gives one option on trade. You leave, you're out. That does not preclude a future trade deal presumably during the 2yr transiion preiod. There is no such thing as hard or soft brexit. There is only brexit.

Let's not forget here... ALL EU Member States have to agree, if one member objects, the deal on offer from May is rejected. There is now several EU States that are becoming opposed to everything the EU stands for, not surprising when it is a corrupted entity, but still, with the likes of Poland and Italy, let's hope these countries say no, because what's being offered is not actually Brexit.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by pip08456

I take it Mr_K that you expect the EU to accept the details in the white paper. If so dream on, it won't happen.

As I said (perhaps) thousands of posts ago Article 50 gives one option on trade. You leave, you're out. That does not preclude a future trade deal presumably during the 2yr transiion preiod. There is no such thing as hard or soft brexit. There is only brexit.

I doubt anyone expects the EU to accept the UK's White Paper in its entireity but after two years they must be relieved to have something from the UK!
The transition period is not two years, Pip. Brexit Day is 29th March 2019 and the transition period ends 31st December 2020. Three months will probably be quite important here.