The state benefits system mega-thread.

Originally Posted by Derek

Oh I don't know. Maybe they could start with some of these.

http://www.reed.co.uk/jobs/haringey?...alaryLowToHigh
http://www.haringeyindependent.co.uk/jobs/
http://www.indeed.co.uk/jobs-in-Haringey

Either that or they could queue up at a coal mine to take a job. You seem pretty convinced that coal mining is economically viable and all thats needed is people to go down there and get the coal out and everything will be peachy in the economy.

Perhaps there are not many qualified for the job? which is why I say people unemployed should be allowed to train on the job as long as they apply themselves and attend the courses. More trained people then to take the jobs

Let me just for reference point out a couple of facts about your links

1st link first page all jobs that need qualified people
2nd link 1st page 2 jobs varies first look had a 2 hour job and a cold caller job
3rd link 1st page all jobs need qualified people

[jamiefrost]

strange I just clicked on the link and the first three were for bar and waiting staff. Maybe you should stop distorting the 'facts' as you put it.

There are just under 26,000 jobs in the first link. Cleaner etc. may not be appealing to people who can get nearly just as much from benefits.

Who knows maybe that's part of the problem.

J

Originally Posted by jamiefrost

strange I just clicked on the link and the first three were for bar and waiting staff. Maybe you should stop distorting the 'facts' as you put it.

There are just under 26,000 jobs in the first link. Cleaner etc. may not be appealing to people who can get nearly just as much from benefits.

Who knows maybe that's part of the problem.

J

obviously the jobs change I am not distorting anything

Jamie what does it say next to the jobs? yes that's right it says just added so please before you insinuate I am lying check out your facts

Originally Posted by tizmeinnit

Perhaps there are not many qualified for the job? which is why I say people unemployed should be allowed to train on the job as long as they apply themselves and attend the courses. More trained people then to take the jobs

Let me just for reference point out a couple of facts about your links

1st link first page all jobs that need qualified people
2nd link 1st page 2 jobs varies first look had a 2 hour job and a cold caller job
3rd link 1st page all jobs need qualified people

Unfortunately, our employment laws have made it so difficult to sack people that there is little incentive for an employer to take someone on without a bucketload of evidence that they are fit for the job. They won't take a risk on the cost of training.

The NI changes Osborne announced the other week might just make a small difference, by slightly lowering the cost for small firms to take on staff the risk is somewhat cushioned.

Originally Posted by Chris

Unfortunately, our employment laws have made it so difficult to sack people that there is little incentive for an employer to take someone on without a bucketload of evidence that they are fit for the job. They won't take a risk on the cost of training.

The NI changes Osborne announced the other week might just make a small difference, by slightly lowering the cost for small firms to take on staff the risk is somewhat cushioned.

Yeah this is why I think those that are really up for retraining should be able to specially as the job climate is what it is. As things stand you can not take a full time course while on JSA so retraining is limited and takes a lot longer so I say give those with the willingness to apply themselves the chance to better themselves the costs will not be that great

[Derek]

Originally Posted by jamiefrost

There are just under 26,000 jobs in the first link. Cleaner etc. may not be appealing to people who can get nearly just as much from benefits.

Who knows maybe that's part of the problem.

I think that is the biggest problem. If people moan about Eastern Europeans coming here and taking all the jobs perhaps they can answer why someone with no UK working background and often limited English language skills can find work when UK born and bred job seekers cannot.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

Most of the vacancies that are advertised in Job Centres are AGENCY jobs, where the agency makes more than the worker.

A mate of mine worked for an agency, and the company that employed him told him they would take him on permanently, as they apid the agency a fortune, as they do the vetting for them.

When l was out of work, l went to THREE agencies (recommended by the JC) the first one was in Staines and they told me that they wanted younger people and l was too experienced) second one was in Hounslow, they told me that they would call me that night - they didn't. I called at the offices at 7am in the morning and l was told the job had gone.

I had a phone call ay 5.30am asking me to get to Paddington for Parcelforce by 6.am when l said l didn't have transport, they said that was no good and took me off there books.

To provide jobs this government MUST invest in this country, and stop companies moving abroad by giving them incentives to stay.

You cannot expect working people to travel miles for a job and they are not getting the financial support at the end. All the government are doing is once again hitting the poor who cannot get a job.

I used to be in the deep cleaning business and stood and worked in a load of crap to make money, but that company went bust. So l know what hard work is like.

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

Most of the vacancies that are advertised in Job Centres are AGENCY jobs, where the agency makes more than the worker.

The agency is the worker's employer, and therefore is responsible for employer's NI, paid holidays and all the associated HR and admin that goes with employing someone. The agency quite rightly passes these costs to the hiring business along with the worker's actual salary costs.

The agency will also take a fee for these services which is its profit for doing business. I don't propose to defend the concept of people going into business to make a profit. You either accept that it is a perfectly reasonable way to behave or else you're an irredeemable communist.

Unless you accept the concept of profit making, but believe agencies are somehow abusing their position?

[jamiefrost]

Originally Posted by tizmeinnit

obviously the jobs change I am not distorting anything

Jamie what does it say next to the jobs? yes that's right it says just added so please before you insinuate I am lying check out your facts

Your post insinuated that the jobs needed qualification when it was blatantly obvious that there were plenty of jobs that anyone could apply for. You were trying to make a point that jobs weren't easily available as they needed qualifications. Thus trying to distort the facts or just being selective with the truth.

The truth is a lot of the jobs are not very attractive especially when they don't pay much more than benefits for some.

J

Originally Posted by jamiefrost

Your post insinuated that the jobs needed qualification when it was blatantly obvious that there were plenty of jobs that anyone could apply for. You were trying to make a point that jobs weren't easily available as they needed qualifications. Thus trying to distort the facts or just being selective with the truth.

The truth is a lot of the jobs are not very attractive especially when they don't pay much more than benefits for some.

J

Originally Posted by tizmeinnit

Perhaps there are not many qualified for the job? which is why I say people unemployed should be allowed to train on the job as long as they apply themselves and attend the courses. More trained people then to take the jobs

Let me just for reference point out a couple of facts about your links

1st link first page all jobs that need qualified people
2nd link 1st page 2 jobs varies first look had a 2 hour job and a cold caller job
3rd link 1st page all jobs need qualified people

read what I said. You assumed and you know what assumption is the mother of do you not?

I stand by my belief in the option to properly retrain/train the unemployed

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by tizmeinnit

Let me just for reference point out a couple of facts about your links

1st link first page all jobs that need qualified people
2nd link 1st page 2 jobs varies first look had a 2 hour job and a cold caller job
3rd link 1st page all jobs need qualified people

Well then people should get off their backsides and get themselves qualified????

How do people expect to get jobs if they're not prepared to make themselves employable.

[Osem]

There is a reason why some migrants can afford to take certain low paid jobs when others can't and that's because they can afford to live cheaper, rough it for a realtively short time and then go back home where the money they've saved goes a whole lot further than it would here.

A plumber mate of mine is working on a site where a small group of Polish guys are employed. Apparently they sleep in a minivan when not working and tend to go back to Poland every few weeks for a week or so before returning. They live very cheap, spend very little here but make far more than they could ever earn back home and use that money to buy or build properties over there. It's the sort of thing UK expats have done in the past in Germany for example, the difference now being the sheer scale of the problem.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Well then people should get off their backsides and get themselves qualified????

How do people expect to get jobs if they're not prepared to make themselves employable.

ok yet another fine moment where I have to repeat myself

You can not do full time courses while on JSA . You can take part time or evening courses but these take a long time before you get any results. Bear in mind an educational year is 10 months ish so in my mind those who are unemployed with no real skills should be allowed 1 year in education or a practical course while still claiming a benefit. The sick already can do this but those on JSA can not. As long as they apply themselves go to the courses and show they are getting results I see this as a good idea

Incidentally the courses the DWP offer those on JSA are as much use as a chocolate teapot

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

Most of the vacancies that are advertised in Job Centres are AGENCY jobs, where the agency makes more than the worker.

A mate of mine worked for an agency, and the company that employed him told him they would take him on permanently, as they apid the agency a fortune, as they do the vetting for them.

When l was out of work, l went to THREE agencies (recommended by the JC) the first one was in Staines and they told me that they wanted younger people and l was too experienced) second one was in Hounslow, they told me that they would call me that night - they didn't. I called at the offices at 7am in the morning and l was told the job had gone.

I had a phone call ay 5.30am asking me to get to Paddington for Parcelforce by 6.am when l said l didn't have transport, they said that was no good and took me off there books.

To provide jobs this government MUST invest in this country, and stop companies moving abroad by giving them incentives to stay.

You cannot expect working people to travel miles for a job and they are not getting the financial support at the end. All the government are doing is once again hitting the poor who cannot get a job.

I used to be in the deep cleaning business and stood and worked in a load of crap to make money, but that company went bust. So l know what hard work is like.

so basically you signed for an agency knowing you would not be able to do the work when it was offered ,how is that the agencies fault?.
Agencies provide a lot of work in this country ,they allow people to gain experience in certain jobs which would otherwise be hard to get

---------- Post added at 13:34 ---------- Previous post was at 13:29 ----------

Originally Posted by tizmeinnit

ok yet another fine moment where I have to repeat myself

You can not do full time courses while on JSA . You can take part time or evening courses but these take a long time before you get any results. Bear in mind an educational year is 10 months ish so in my mind those who are unemployed with no real skills should be allowed 1 year in education or a practical course while still claiming a benefit. The sick already can do this but those on JSA can not. As long as they apply themselves go to the courses and show they are getting results I see this as a good idea

Incidentally the courses the DWP offer those on JSA are as much use as a chocolate teapot

so what's wrong with getting a job stacking shelves or working in a pub and doing college courses ,or even better ,applying oneself at school and taking every opportunity to get qualifications at a younger age .

Originally Posted by martyh

so basically you signed for an agency knowing you would not be able to do the work when it was offered ,how is that the agencies fault?.
Agencies provide a lot of work in this country ,they allow people to gain experience in certain jobs which would otherwise be hard to get

---------- Post added at 13:34 ---------- Previous post was at 13:29 ----------



so what's wrong with getting a job stacking shelves or working in a pub and doing college courses ,or even better ,applying oneself at school and taking every opportunity to get qualifications at a younger age .

nothing but there is not jobs for everyone unemployed so why not give them a year after all JSA is a mere fraction of the welfare bill.

Its very easy for you to say apply yourself at school yada yada but not all children are academic and to repeat other rhetoric I believe a change to the old Grammar school for the academic child and comprehensive schools to teach the none academic practical skills. These are all things I have said over and over . Also lets face it the young these days are not offered that much of an education due to the school system being seriously flawed

Oh and not everyone unemployed are young