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This NI increase for Social/Health Care
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Old 09-09-2021, 13:33   #136
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Re: This NI increase for Social/Health Care

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post

Paywall link + useful quote:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...aign=DM1488089



Not much more to say, is there?
Summed it up perfectly for me Seph, not much use to some poor bugger with a broken leg are they
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Old 09-09-2021, 14:33   #137
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Re: This NI increase for Social/Health Care

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
The Brexit dividend over three years would raise £48 billion.
What's happened to that?

I hate the dishonesty of this government. Of course I dislike the Labour Party even more!
Whenever I see someone's salary being benchmarked to the Prime Minister's in this fashion, there's inevitably a big straw being clutched at. The Telegraph rarely disappoints in this respect these days. Alas it's followed the instant opinion, zero analysis trend.

What would be useful to know is if other roles are being removed and the benchmark salary for comparable roles.
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Old 09-09-2021, 14:40   #138
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Re: This NI increase for Social/Health Care

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Whenever I see someone's salary being benchmarked to the Prime Minister's in this fashion, there's inevitably a big straw being clutched at. The Telegraph rarely disappoints in this respect these days. Alas it's followed the instant opinion, zero analysis trend.

What would be useful to know is if other roles are being removed and the benchmark salary for comparable roles.
IF the roles are required , then you need to decide if you're going to pay the money that's needed to attract the level of talent you require for the role.

Competition for candidates in certain fields of work is insanely fierce right now. I've had a couple of bonkers offers without even applying for roles.
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Old 09-09-2021, 15:58   #139
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Re: This NI increase for Social/Health Care

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Whenever I see someone's salary being benchmarked to the Prime Minister's in this fashion, there's inevitably a big straw being clutched at. The Telegraph rarely disappoints in this respect these days. Alas it's followed the instant opinion, zero analysis trend.

What would be useful to know is if other roles are being removed and the benchmark salary for comparable roles.
Oh Andrew - as if you didn't know!
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Old 09-09-2021, 16:38   #140
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Re: This NI increase for Social/Health Care

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
I think we must be at cross purposes here. It is the tax hike that was not set out in the manifesto, not the NHS/Care Services reform, which was. And the tax hike was necessary because we have already spent many sackfuls of money on Covid, which was not known about at the time.
Debt is forecast to be 233% of GDP by 2060 regardless of Covid.

Structural reform and decisions about what we do pay for through taxation, and ultimately WHO pays, has been absolutely inevitable for some time.

I do find it odd so many arch-capitalists turn socialist in their 60s and 70s so long as they don’t have to sell their house.
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Old 09-09-2021, 16:46   #141
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Re: This NI increase for Social/Health Care

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Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Debt is forecast to be 233% of GDP by 2060 regardless of Covid.

Structural reform and decisions about what we do pay for through taxation, and ultimately WHO pays, has been absolutely inevitable for some time.

I do find it odd so many arch-capitalists turn socialist in their 60s and 70s so long as they don’t have to sell their house.
I'll disregard your last sentence apart from observing that you malign people who have diligently worked all their lives to pay for their homes and have paid taxes to useless governments to protect their health and care.

Your words on structural reform make sense. Which political party could grasp this and tell people what this means? Btw, the nearest politician to have come closer is John Redwood with his flat tax policy.

(No doubt someone will say I was doing well till I mentioned JR - but at least I go that one in first).


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Old 09-09-2021, 23:42   #142
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Re: This NI increase for Social/Health Care

Labour leading in the latest polls. Not a mark of a coherent Labour policy - I'm certain of that much - but indicative of the challenge I've described. Nobody wants to pay for generations of cans being kicked down the road.
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Old 10-09-2021, 03:26   #143
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Re: This NI increase for Social/Health Care

The cans have to get down the road somehow . . and seeing as there's a shortage of lorry drivers, kicking them seems a decent idea

I'm sure it's something most politicians have experience of anyway
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Old 10-09-2021, 18:30   #144
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Re: This NI increase for Social/Health Care

Hiring bureaucrats is typical. Happens all the time more money is made available because someone has to control how that money is spent and that someone is expensive. It also happen even more with Tory government, the civil service can't let them get away with doing something worthwhile so they will find a way to make it less effective without actually opposing it.


My grandmother used to say that getting rid of matron from the wards was a huge mistake. It moved control to administrators who had very different aims than running a ward well.


It's nigh on impossible to revert though. You'd need someone to monitor that it is all working better and those someones likely want to keep their cushy jobs and their agency in work so may not report favourably.


There is wastage in most parts of public service. But correcting it often creates more wastage in other areas and, for the NHS, patients will be the ones to suffer. You can't ask a sick person to wait until the system is working OK before they get treated.
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Old 10-09-2021, 22:05   #145
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Re: This NI increase for Social/Health Care

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
The Brexit dividend over three years would raise £48 billion.
What's happened to that?

I hate the dishonesty of this government. Of course I dislike the Labour Party even more!
Actually, Seph, the government has since given more than that to the NHS.

---------- Post added at 20:56 ---------- Previous post was at 20:54 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Debt is forecast to be 233% of GDP by 2060 regardless of Covid.

Structural reform and decisions about what we do pay for through taxation, and ultimately WHO pays, has been absolutely inevitable for some time.

I do find it odd so many arch-capitalists turn socialist in their 60s and 70s so long as they don’t have to sell their house.
That doesn’t change the fact that Covid had not been factored into the manifesto.

---------- Post added at 21:00 ---------- Previous post was at 20:56 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Labour leading in the latest polls. Not a mark of a coherent Labour policy - I'm certain of that much - but indicative of the challenge I've described. Nobody wants to pay for generations of cans being kicked down the road.
The fact that Labour has, this far into a period of government where tough decisions have had to be made, only just scraped into be more popular in the opinion polls, is only news because it has taken so long.

Opposition parties always tend to be more popular in the first few years of a newly elected government.

The Conservatives certainly aren’t kicking the care home can down the road. They are addressing the problem, which is more than Labour have done in the decades that were available to them.

---------- Post added at 21:05 ---------- Previous post was at 21:00 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh View Post
Hiring bureaucrats is typical. Happens all the time more money is made available because someone has to control how that money is spent and that someone is expensive. It also happen even more with Tory government, the civil service can't let them get away with doing something worthwhile so they will find a way to make it less effective without actually opposing it.


My grandmother used to say that getting rid of matron from the wards was a huge mistake. It moved control to administrators who had very different aims than running a ward well.


It's nigh on impossible to revert though. You'd need someone to monitor that it is all working better and those someones likely want to keep their cushy jobs and their agency in work so may not report favourably.


There is wastage in most parts of public service. But correcting it often creates more wastage in other areas and, for the NHS, patients will be the ones to suffer. You can't ask a sick person to wait until the system is working OK before they get treated.
The fact that the NHS must hire all these highly paid managers to tell them how to spend the money indicates to me that they didn’t need the money in the first place. Otherwise they would know exactly where the money should go.

I would be more impressed if they hired managers to work out how to be more efficient. Spending millions on private health provision and then not using it is just one little example of the nature of the problem.
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