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400 more miles of the hard shoulder to be removed.
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Old 08-04-2019, 15:35   #1
RichardCoulter
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400 more miles of the hard shoulder to be removed.

I have never been allowed to drive for medical reasons, but am intrigued as to what drivers think of this idea.

It will ease the congested roads, but what are people supposed to do in an emergency?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/u...oved-5d02t3bbj

The speed limit whilst going past roadworks is to also be increased.

The police are unhappy because they have nowhere to pull over dangerous drivers:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/8309...hard-shoulder/

It does rather seem that safety is being compromised in order to accommodate the amount of cars now on the road and could undermine the current efforts to cut car pollution.

What do those who do drive think to this idea?
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Old 08-04-2019, 15:59   #2
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Re: 400 more miles of the hard shoulder to be removed.

Well considering the title of the article is

‘Unsafe’ hard shoulders to be removed

Quote:
The hard shoulder is to be stripped from almost 400 more miles of motorway within six years after warnings from highways chiefs that it is unsafe.
So its not just being removed for the sake of it, but due to safety concerns.
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Old 08-04-2019, 16:19   #3
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Re: 400 more miles of the hard shoulder to be removed.

Another Richard "mountain out of a molehill" thread.
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Old 08-04-2019, 16:45   #4
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Re: 400 more miles of the hard shoulder to be removed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Well considering the title of the article is

‘Unsafe’ hard shoulders to be removed

So its not just being removed for the sake of it, but due to safety concerns.
They are said to be dangerous because people end up getting shunted on them, which could be alleviated by clamping down on those stopping for non emergencies.

Even with the fact that some people can still end up being shunted, I think that this is the lesser of two evils. If someone is on the motorway and has e.g. a heart attack, a hard shoulder (despite there being a chance of being shuntered) is still safer than remaining on the motorway for everyone concerned.

If there had been incidents of the fire service dropping people whilst rescuing them from burning buildings, it would be like saying that they will no longer rescue them because it's unsafe!

I suspect that the use of terminology like 'dangerous' and 'digital motorway are spin to make it sound like an improvement that they are being taken away.

---------- Post added at 16:45 ---------- Previous post was at 16:42 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 View Post
Another Richard "mountain out of a molehill" thread.
It's not, this has been going on for some time and the article concerns a further 400 miles of hard shoulder that is to be removed.

Are you a driver? If so, what do you think about this?

Last edited by RichardCoulter; 08-04-2019 at 16:50.
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Old 09-04-2019, 08:10   #5
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Re: 400 more miles of the hard shoulder to be removed.

Not being a driver myself how is getting rid of the hard shoulder going to help emergency vehicles , etc , etc , etc?.
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Old 09-04-2019, 08:38   #6
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Re: 400 more miles of the hard shoulder to be removed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone View Post
Not being a driver myself how is getting rid of the hard shoulder going to help emergency vehicles , etc , etc , etc?.
They have emergency lay-bys in the existing roads where this is in place already, and they will put more of these in.

From the OP’s Times link
Quote:
However, Jim O’Sullivan, Highways England chief executive, told The Times that the new system was safer because emergency lay-bys allowed vehicles to pull off the motorway, separating them from fast-moving traffic. He said that one in ten motorway fatalities took place on the hard shoulder, usually due to vehicles hitting stationary cars from behind.

“With the volume, speed and size of modern cars, the refuge areas are safer than the hard shoulder,” he said. “You will not get a car or truck drifting into the emergency refuge area whereas they can and do drift into the hard shoulder. We are now well into smart motorway operation and the statistics we have are reliable. They are telling us that the safety record on smart motorways is arguably better than what we see on conventional motorways.”

On smart motorways the hard shoulder is removed to create an extra lane, with cars having to stop in emergency lay-bys if they break down. Variable speed limits are used to regulate traffic and lanes are shut using red Xs on overhead signs to signal accidents or broken-down vehicles in the road ahead. The system is used on motorways including the M1, M4, M6, M25 and M62.

A recent safety evaluation on a stretch of smart motorway on the M25 in Kent showed that collisions had been cut by almost 30 per cent, to 9.3 collisions per 100 million vehicle miles compared with 13.2 before the upgrade.
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Old 09-04-2019, 08:51   #7
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Re: 400 more miles of the hard shoulder to be removed.

Thanks for that Hugh as reading up a bit about it they also intend to shorten the distance between each emergency lay-bys in future from 1.5 miles to one mile which has to be a good thing.

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news...hire-1-8970286

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/mot...art-motorways/
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:45   #8
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Re: 400 more miles of the hard shoulder to be removed.

I've always found these to be dangerous. One minute its an extra lane and then the next its closed again. Miss it and you could plough into a broken down car.


This will annoy those that want to save the envionment and all that but the truth is there are ten times more cars on the roads these days and for some roads, such as the M25 we should really have an extra few lanes.
Look at how many they have in the U.S. That seems to work.
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:55   #9
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Re: 400 more miles of the hard shoulder to be removed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone View Post
Thanks for that Hugh as reading up a bit about it they also intend to shorten the distance between each emergency lay-bys in future from 1.5 miles to one mile which has to be a good thing.

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news...hire-1-8970286

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/mot...art-motorways/
Still isn't going to help emergency vehicles get to accidents quickly. I think less cars might be the answer....
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:14   #10
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Re: 400 more miles of the hard shoulder to be removed.

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Originally Posted by Mr K View Post
Still isn't going to help emergency vehicles get to accidents quickly. I think less cars might be the answer....
H'mmm! And how do you propose that we can get to a position whereby we have fewer cars on the road, Mr K?
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:18   #11
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Re: 400 more miles of the hard shoulder to be removed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K View Post
Still isn't going to help emergency vehicles get to accidents quickly. I think less cars might be the answer....
Well Mr K that ain't going to happen in a month of Sunday's unless you have some great idea which we have not heard of yet.

---------- Post added at 10:18 ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K View Post
Still isn't going to help emergency vehicles get to accidents quickly. I think less cars might be the answer....
Especially on those motorways when it is basically bumper to bumper miles on end at busy times.
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:38   #12
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Re: 400 more miles of the hard shoulder to be removed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone View Post
Well Mr K that ain't going to happen in a month of Sunday's unless you have some great idea which we have not heard of yet.
Oh I have great ideas Den , making all public transport free, tripling tax on private transport (with exceptions for the disabled), max of one car per household. No politician is brave enough to make the big decisions to tackle congestion/climate change.
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:45   #13
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Re: 400 more miles of the hard shoulder to be removed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K View Post
Oh I have great ideas Den , making all public transport free, tripling tax on private transport (with exceptions for the disabled), max of one car per household. No politician is brave enough to make the big decisions to tackle congestion/climate change.
Politicians are not going to make tough decisions that will lose them core voters Mr K are they...
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:47   #14
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Re: 400 more miles of the hard shoulder to be removed.

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Politicians are not going to make tough decisions that will lose them core voters Mr K are they...
No, so maybe us the 'core voters' are to blame.....
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:54   #15
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Re: 400 more miles of the hard shoulder to be removed.

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No, so maybe us the 'core voters' are to blame.....
Most "core voters" will vote for whatever party protects their pocket.
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