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Police to get tough on internet trolls.
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Old 21-08-2016, 19:15   #61
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

Yes, and now they are putting resources in to follow up on those breaking existing laws, who thought they were hiding behind internet anonymity...
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Old 21-08-2016, 19:27   #62
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

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Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
Yes, and now they are putting resources in to follow up on those breaking existing laws, who thought they were hiding behind internet anonymity...
The resources are already there
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Old 21-08-2016, 19:38   #63
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

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Originally Posted by martyh View Post
It's not being addressed any more than it is now simply because it cannot be anymore addressed .It simply is not a clear cut ,black and white issue like theft or murder where evidence is available to make the decision .Bullying and name calling is subjective ,what may be bullying to some is simple teasing to others ,there is already enough legislation and procedure in place to deal with it
Evidence will be available by virtue of it being posted on the internet. During the consultation period it was unearthed that, even if someone posts something innapropriate and then subsequently deletes it, that the information remains there indefinitly to be used as evidence.

Some people employ the use of 'banter', where insults are traded between people.

Whilst it's not really my sense of humour, I understand that to some people it is. Where two people do this and nobody is offended, this is unlikely to constitute an offence.

If, however, the recipient made it clear that they did not appreciate this form of humour and it continued regardless, then it probably would constitute an offence.

I expect it to follow the social model of disability discrimination, where the test of whether something is discriminatory or offensive lies in what the recipient perceives it to be.

In essence, even if you genuinly say something meant as a joke, if the recipient perceives it to be offensive as opposed to humourous, then it is not a joke.

As an example, how do you know that someone on a forum, chatroom, social networking site isn't, for example, autistic or on suicide watch?

The short answer is that you don't, so it's always more prudent to treat others with respect, dignity and courtesy at all times

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Yes, and now they are putting resources in to follow up on those breaking existing laws, who thought they were hiding behind internet anonymity...
Absolutely right Hugh

Last edited by RichardCoulter; 21-08-2016 at 19:47.
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Old 21-08-2016, 19:55   #64
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

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Originally Posted by RichardCoulter View Post
Evidence will be available by virtue of it being posted on the internet. During the consultation period it was unearthed that, even if someone posts something innapropriate and then subsequently deletes it, that the information remains there indefinitly to be used as evidence.

Some people employ the use of 'banter', where insults are traded between people.

Whilst it's not really my sense of humour, I understand that to some people it is. Where two people do this and nobody is offended, this is unlikely to constitute an offence.

If, however, the recipient made it clear that they did not appreciate this form of humour and it continued regardless, then it probably would constitute an offence.

I expect it to follow the social model of disability discrimination, where the test of whether something is discriminatory or offensive lies in what the recipient perceives it to be.

In essence, even if you genuinly say something meant as a joke, if the recipient perceives it to be offensive as opposed to humourous, then it is not a joke.

As an example, how do you know that someone on a forum, chatroom, social networking site isn't, for example, autistic or on suicide watch?

The short answer is that you don't, so it's always more prudent to treat others with respect, dignity and courtesy at all times

just because a person thinks they are being bullied does not make it so .You are talking about tying up valuable extra resources based on some idiots belief that because someone else disagreed with them they are being bullied.Utterly ridiculous
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Old 21-08-2016, 20:17   #65
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

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Originally Posted by martyh View Post
just because a person thinks they are being bullied does not make it so .You are talking about tying up valuable extra resources based on some idiots belief that because someone else disagreed with them they are being bullied.Utterly ridiculous
The Law disagrees with you...

https://www.avonandsomerset.police.u...crime/threats/
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Threats to kill

Making a threat to kill someone is a serious offence and carries a maximum penalty of 10 years imprisonment.

It does not matter whether the person making the threat intends to kill; their intent has to be that the other person would fear that the threat would be carried out to kill them or another person.

It is not necessary for the person receiving the threat to be put in fear of injury.
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Old 21-08-2016, 20:29   #66
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

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Originally Posted by martyh View Post
just because a person thinks they are being bullied does not make it so .You are talking about tying up valuable extra resources based on some idiots belief that because someone else disagreed with them they are being bullied.Utterly ridiculous
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I believe the term is harassment, alarm or distress, the police can get involved if any of those particular boxes are ticked
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Old 21-08-2016, 21:14   #67
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

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No it doesn't ,in no way are threats to kill the same as bullying or name calling. your comparison is quite frankly bizarre



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Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
I believe the term is harassment, alarm or distress, the police can get involved if any of those particular boxes are ticked
yes and the resources and laws are already in place to deal with it
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Old 21-08-2016, 21:19   #68
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

As people expose more of their lives to the entire world via social media it's not really a big surprise that problems such as this arise. The simple answer is to be a bit more careful about what you post and the places you post it. There is a life outside the world of social media, it's called reality.
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Old 21-08-2016, 21:35   #69
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

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Originally Posted by Osem View Post
As people expose more of their lives to the entire world via social media it's not really a big surprise that problems such as this arise. The simple answer is to be a bit more careful about what you post and the places you post it. There is a life outside the world of social media, it's called reality.
i simply don't understand why people expose so much of their personal life for everyone to see .I would say they deserve what they get but i'm scared of being trolled
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Old 21-08-2016, 22:02   #70
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh View Post
No it doesn't ,in no way are threats to kill the same as bullying or name calling. your comparison is quite frankly bizarre





yes and the resources and laws are already in place to deal with it
We appear to be at cross-purposes - I believe the additional resources are being focused at those internet trolls who are threatening others, thus breaking existing laws...

https://www.london.gov.uk/what-we-do...-decisions-206

Regarding resource already being there, the Mayor of London disagrees with you
Quote:
The police response to online hate crime is inconsistent, primarily because police officers are not equipped to tackle it. The purpose of this programme is to strengthen the police and community response to this growing crime type.
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Last edited by Hugh; 21-08-2016 at 22:07.
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Old 21-08-2016, 22:43   #71
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

But death threats are not always serious whilst i agree it's a stupid way to vent frustration it is very often that simple and that is not worthy of police time anyone that has online gamed has either had threats made to them or seen them and no police involvement and no deaths. There is nothing more serious about this now then before and the apparatus has always been in place to deal with the one in a million that means it seriously.

Whilst i don't support or condone bullying in any form online and real life are very different online bullying is easily avoided and should not be thought of as as serious as real life physical bullying where victims cannot easily avoid it. Nor do i believe verbal or online bullying is the same as physical attack or should be treated the same a physical beating leaves not only psychological damage but often serious physical damage as well.

Anyone seriously damaged by verbal attacks is in more need of a psychologist not a police officer.
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Old 21-08-2016, 23:04   #72
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

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Originally Posted by RizzyKing View Post
But death threats are not always serious whilst i agree it's a stupid way to vent frustration it is very often that simple and that is not worthy of police time anyone that has online gamed has either had threats made to them or seen them and no police involvement and no deaths. There is nothing more serious about this now then before and the apparatus has always been in place to deal with the one in a million that means it seriously.
Normal people haven't spent a youth dealing with online trolls.

A death threat is illegal so is being asked is for the police to deal with a crime.
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Old 21-08-2016, 23:40   #73
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

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Originally Posted by martyh View Post
just because a person thinks they are being bullied does not make it so .You are talking about tying up valuable extra resources based on some idiots belief that because someone else disagreed with them they are being bullied.Utterly ridiculous
Yes it does, it's the contemporary way of dealing with bullying, abuse etc.

For years, victims of child sex abuse, workplace bullying, domestic violence weren't listened to. They were told that they were liars, to "get on with it", to "put up and shut up" etc.

It's not about disagreeing with somebody, it's about interacting with them in a respectful and courteous manner, treating them with dignity, without harassment, bullying or discrimination.

This even applies to people with learning difficulties that you refer to as "idiots".

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
I believe the term is harassment, alarm or distress, the police can get involved if any of those particular boxes are ticked
Yup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh View Post
i simply don't understand why people expose so much of their personal life for everyone to see .I would say they deserve what they get but i'm scared of being trolled
It's not about disclosing personal information online (although that is unwise), it's about how you treat, refer to and speak to people.

Which people "get what they deserve"?

- The disabled member on here who was told that he should have been killed at birth?

- The middle aged man with learning difficulties who locked himself away and then killed himself because of how he was treated? (Those with learning difficulties are ten times more likely to commit suicide).

- The 13 year old girl who committed suicide after relentless bullying at school because she was unusually tall?

- The young person being mocked because of their sexuality, whilst barely understanding it themselves? (LGBT people are two to three times more likely to commit suicide).

It isn't just the law that you have to worry about, Virgin Media now carry truTV. There's a programme on there about how people who feel aggrieved about they way that they have been treated online have gone on to trace and murder people.

This is an American programme, but I have personal knowledge of a one sentence post that led to the tragic death of a young man in Yorkshire after he was knifed.

The world is changing and if you don't follow suit, you could find yourself on the wrong side of the law, or even worse.

Wouldn't it just be easier and kinder to be nice to other people?
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Old 22-08-2016, 15:25   #74
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

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Originally Posted by RichardCoulter View Post
Yes it does, it's the contemporary way of dealing with bullying, abuse etc.
It most certainly does not ,i suppose you are one of those people who think that all people accused of rape or child abuse must be guilty because someone said they where People do make stuff up you know ,they also exaggerate or see insults where there isn't any .Following your logic the courts would be full of cases dealing with potential online bullying and the police would be able to deal with serious crime because they are to busy chasing down some nutter on facebook

The law states that every piece of electrical equipment must have an off button some people need to learn how to use it


Quote:
It's not about disclosing personal information online (although that is unwise), it's about how you treat, refer to and speak to people.

Which people "get what they deserve"?
Those that spend every waking moment on facebook or twitter ,posting pictures of themselves having a crap or telling the world how bad a hair day they are having .The human gene pool could do without oxygen wasters like those
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Old 22-08-2016, 17:11   #75
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

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Originally Posted by martyh View Post
It most certainly does not ,i suppose you are one of those people who think that all people accused of rape or child abuse must be guilty because someone said they where People do make stuff up you know ,they also exaggerate or see insults where there isn't any .Following your logic the courts would be full of cases dealing with potential online bullying and the police would be able to deal with serious crime because they are to busy chasing down some nutter on facebook

The law states that every piece of electrical equipment must have an off button some people need to learn how to use it




Those that spend every waking moment on facebook or twitter ,posting pictures of themselves having a crap or telling the world how bad a hair day they are having .The human gene pool could do without oxygen wasters like those
Should we suppose you are one of those people who thinks that anyone who accuses someone of rape or child abuse is making it up, because the accused denies it?

It's not an either/or situation - if someone is accused of a serious crime, it should be investigated; if the accuser is found to have made it up (as opposed to there not being enough evidence to convict, which is a completely separate thing), they should be charged with wasting police time.
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