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Police to get tough on internet trolls.
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Old 15-08-2016, 17:48   #31
RichardCoulter
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dilli-theclaw View Post
Got your legal team ready then
The Government has cut back Legal Aid so much that people in your position no longer have any effective legal protection in many essential areas.

It's rather unfair that I should obtain free legal representation, whilst you now have to pay for any quality legal advice out of your benefits.

One can't even get help for a divorce now, unless domestic violence is involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L View Post
They should be out there catching pedos and rapists.

not "troll-hunting”
No, all of these crimes should be investigated. People have committed suicide because of internet trolls.

---------- Post added at 17:34 ---------- Previous post was at 17:29 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing View Post
So at a time when there's less police we're going to have them sorting internet bullying and having far more of their time wasted then managing to do any good.
The simple answer is to reverse the cuts to the police force. The Government can afford to let companies off paying tax, write off the overpaid expenses by MP's etc, so they can obviously afford to protect citizens in this country.

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post
It really depends on what they mean by 'troll'. Those of us who've been on the internet for a long time define troll as someone who says something relatively harmless but designed to provoke a reaction, i.e. someone on a forum who intentionally spouts nonsense to get a rise out of people.

However the media has taken troll to mean someone who tweets, most often it's a tweet otherwise a Facebook comment/message, rape or death threats to someone. Whilst discussion on the internet used to be confined to random and anonymous people who largely knew what they were getting into it's now a part of life for 'normal' people who don't expect the abuse that comes with the internet because of the aforementioned anonymous people. They've quite rightly come to the conclusion that the way they're addressed is simply not on.

Go to a prominent woman's twitter account and see their replies, especially if they've posted an opinion on politics or feminism, it's awful. These people aren't trolls as we would know them but nasty, disturbed, people.

We should work on the assumption that if you wouldn't write it in a letter to someone or say it to their face then neither is it acceptable online.
Exactly Damien.

---------- Post added at 17:41 ---------- Previous post was at 17:34 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L View Post
As silly as it may sound.

you might not know their address to send them a letter or to travel to, to say it to their face.
so is it the acceptable online?

if not then why not. and then is it all down to whether the person is offended?

is it down to alarm and distress?

what alarms me may not alarm the judger.
what distreeses the judger may not distress the onlooker.

it's a bit like one may not not like Marmite. but another one does.
which one's right?
As I understand the legal position, if an individual deems a remark to be offensive, hate speech etc, then it has to be investigated on that basis.

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Originally Posted by RizzyKing View Post
I think the thing is the internet is a choice people make social interaction on the internet is a choice and one that comes with risks but i honestly cannot see how the police are the best organisation to work out real from hissy fit or bad mood. I've lost count over the years how many times I've been abused and threatened on the internet but i have never thought about reporting it or letting it get to me. I think too many people these days are way too thin skinned and even looking to be offended or upset and knowing the police have to take it seriously if reported is just asking for a whole lot of trouble.
Some people are naturally sensitive, mentally unstable, timid etc and need to be protected from bullies.

---------- Post added at 17:48 ---------- Previous post was at 17:41 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart View Post
I doubt the Police are concerned about someone on Facebook or a forum just posting some random crap to slightly offend people and get a reaction. They are annoying, but not really doing any harm..

The problem comes when people threaten death, rape or other serious injury online, and mere trolling becomes bullying. Remember Gamergate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy)? That started with some people objecting on various forums to a game put out by a female developer, then escalated into people threatening to rape or kill her, as well as publishing her own personal details online.

I think the problem is that we have a generation of people that in some ways are so au fait with internet communications that they consider it the same as using the phone or speaking in person, but they are not aware (or don't care) that while they may consider what they are saying to be a laugh or a joke, not everyone does.

Another part of the problem is we still have a pack mentality. Some people see someone being abused online, and rather than think "that's awful", and report it, or question it in the thread, think "that looks fun" and join in.

A good moderating team should be able to spot that sort of thing, and take appropriate action, but the problem is that facebook and twitter (where a lot of this stuff happens) are effectively unmoderated.

We've even seen the sort of threats here, actually made against Russ. An ex member told Russ that if Russ ever went to Manchester, as soon as he got off the train, this ex-member would be waiting for him.

The only slight logistical problem with that is that, at the time, Russ didn't have a facebook account, and he hadn't uploaded any photos here, so the member would not have known what he looked like, what station Russ would have got off the at, or even when Russ was going to arrive. Bought to mind visions of a dishevelled ex member of the forum just randomly popping to the railway station beating up random Welsh people.
The "pack mentality" works both ways though. After being a member for many years I 'came out' as disabled. After a couple of members started harrassing me, the pack mentality kicked in and others followed like sheep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J View Post
It's simple really.Read the article but don't bother with the 'debate' underneath.

As for forum trolls..if people stick to sites that have strong moderation you should be fine.
Facebook is notoriously bad for allowing bullying (and, in the main, not moderated).

I think that in time forums, social networking sites etc will have to be regulated.
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Old 15-08-2016, 18:48   #32
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

Bullying is sadly a part of life has been since forever and it's unpleasant and cowardly but most people either rise to it or remove themselves from the usual situations and that's in real life. As i said participation on the internet is a choice you don't have to do it and if you encounter bullies in one area there are dozens of others to migrate too add in that there are some people who say the stupidest and borderline offensive thibgs to illicit a backlash which often has overblown language used in response and this is a recipe for disaster.

As heartless as it might sound but anyone who was bullied on the internet and ended their life probably wasn't going to live long anyway because the world is full of people and things that would tip them over the edge. We live in an age where some people seem to think everything should be perfectly safe and have people to ensure that, not sure when it happened but it has and the group are getting larger and so are their demands for insulation from anything they perceive as threatening and it just isn't possible.
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Old 15-08-2016, 19:37   #33
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

I'll post one last time before I call it a day, as I don't want to come across as anti-trolls etc, just the really ill considered and stupid laws/police resources dedicated to this, when there's rather better use of said resources easily available.

In particular this:

Quote:
As I understand the legal position, if an individual deems a remark to be offensive, hate speech etc, then it has to be investigated on that basis.

That has to be so subjective that it's not even possible to have any kind of legal judgment made on that basis, given how so many people are offended about anything.

Far better if some clear legal outlines were in place, where if breached, then there'd be some basis for pursuing a prosecution, rather than because Jilly WetSock was upset because some bloke told her to 'calm down dear' and she wasn't in her 'safe space'


Christ how did we get so so .. pathetic and wet in this Country.
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Old 15-08-2016, 19:42   #34
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

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Originally Posted by techguyone View Post
Christ how did we get so so .. pathetic and wet in this Country.
Careful now, you will upset multiple people with such an obviously religious and hateful outburst, I feel a troll report coming on.
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Old 15-08-2016, 21:42   #35
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

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Originally Posted by tweetiepooh View Post
Trolling to me is more a repeated and consistent "nastiness" than a single posting. It's probably one of those things that will be hard to define and then hard to prosecute because defence will try to show how it doesn't exactly fit that definition.
I define a troll as someone who winds somebody up.

so already we have 2 different definitions.
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Old 15-08-2016, 22:20   #36
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

The media has taken troll to mean someone who sends threats online or otherwise engages in sustained abuse of a individual, it's not people winding up others in a comment section.
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Old 15-08-2016, 22:42   #37
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

And some young people think trolled means they've just been pranked.

so if we don't know the real definition of the word troll then we have no hope.
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Old 16-08-2016, 16:52   #38
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post
Well if anyone is generation snowflake it probably isn't the generation who've had to pay £9,000 per year in tuition fees and had all their benefits cut.

This isn't about generation snowflake though it's about what is acceptable online and what isn't and the internet as a wild-west for abuse might be coming to an end, at least in the UK. We're not talking about trolls here but, I hope, actual threats which is a common experience for women online.
As well as women, children, the disabled (both mental and physical) are singled out by trolls.

Children are amongst those who have committed suicide due to relentless bullying, people suffering with anorexia have been encouraged not to eat or told that they are overweight out of malice, those contemplating suicide have been encouraged to go through with it etc.

Often trolls will start with something low level like following them round the internet making snide comments purposely designed and crafted to undermine their credibility and cause upset.

This new initiative was formulated after consultation and evidence from people who know what they are talking about because they are/have been affected by this issue
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Old 16-08-2016, 21:09   #39
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

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Originally Posted by RichardCoulter View Post

No, all of these crimes should be investigated. People have committed suicide because of internet trolls.
And internet trolls have committed suicide because of being investigated! Go figure.

---------- Post added at 20:09 ---------- Previous post was at 20:07 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L View Post
I define a troll as someone who winds somebody up.

so already we have 2 different definitions.
I define a troll as somebody who lives under a bridge, and eats goats.
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Old 17-08-2016, 10:37   #40
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

It is the subjective nature of the hate laws that is the problem. There is a difference between deliberate, repeated and targeted comments to expressing an opinion that someone finds offensive or "hurtful".
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Old 19-08-2016, 13:43   #41
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

There was a programme last night that focussed on trolls targeting 'celebrities'.

Now, I don't have a lot of time for these so called celebrities and they do need to realise that there is a downside to their quest for fame and fortune, but these trolls take it too far.

I remember some attacking Tom Daly about his late father.

http://www.channel5.com/show/celeb-t...ing-to-get-you

These keyboard warriors are usually lost for words when challenged.
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Old 19-08-2016, 14:47   #42
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

It's just a legal extension of The Snoopers Charter AFAIC.
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Old 19-08-2016, 19:34   #43
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

I think that it's is a double edged sword, on the one hand something is needed to stamp out bullying on the internet, I'm amazed in how many still seem to think that the internet is anonymous and that they cannot be traced.

On the other hand, these trolls (terrorists too) have ensured that our civil liberties are eroded even further, because it gives Governments a perfect excuse to use it to their own advantage.
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Old 19-08-2016, 20:06   #44
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

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Originally Posted by RichardCoulter View Post
I think that it's is a double edged sword, on the one hand something is needed to stamp out bullying on the internet,.
Maybe if people didn't attach so much importance to Facebook and Twitter there wouldn't be so much of a problem.I don't use either and i don't get bullied....... go figure
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Old 19-08-2016, 21:03   #45
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

Trouble is some people live their life online they invite the whole world in and cannot handle criticism and you could be a saint but you'll still get someone crticising because that's just what some people do. As far as the internet goes as I've said it's a choice and if you have a hard time leave it for a while you don't need the internet to survive and allocating police resources to this is a slap in the face to the growing victims of burglary that usually get a crime number and nothing else.
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