Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[unicus]

Ok I've looked a bit more at how BT plan to use Phorm (see http://webwise.bt.com/webwise/customer_choice.html) though there's no indication whether that's how it was set up in the previous 06/07 trials and that would probably only ever be revealed if taken to court.

In the diagram the client is connected to the rules engine but it shows that only http traffic goes there so in-between there is some protocol filtering equipment that is not shown or the diagram is wrong and the rules engine reads all the data and determines which is http.

If the former is correct then it would be trivial to route only 'opted-in customers connections' to the rules engine to determine if they currently want to be 'Phormed'. By 'opted-in customers connections' I mean that if a system like this were to be implemented the express consent of the paying customer (who they have a contract with) is required before they can asked the current web user on the connection if they agree to be 'Phormed'. They would therefore have to contact the customer beforehand by email or post to get informed consent and then it would be the customers responsibility to inform anyone using the Internet connection that they have consented.

As it is it does not comply with the law. They (in this case BT with Phorm 'aiding & abetting'/inciting) are planning to intercept the data not for a purpose they they have the right to do. What happens after the interception is irrelevant as they do not have the lawful right to intercept in the first place.

It is clearly obvious that Phorm have tried hard to comply with the law and distance themselves from the data interception and they may not be directly controlling the interception in the current BT model but they are complicit. Though Phorm have tried it is all in vain as the root of their system, their idea, is to track millions of web users and can only realistically be achieved by breaking the law. The possible model I outlined above, that may comply with the law, would gain them very few customers and not enough revenue. Sorry Phorm your business model is no go.

And I haven't even bothered with the privacy issues or the mountainous task of getting website owners permission.

[manxminx]

There's an excellent discussion on the BT Phorm thread re websites and webmasters. One person says:

I've decided to remove all Phorm/Webwise blocks, so I can see what is going on.

If I get the chance to opt-in to the trial I probably will do so, for the sake of being able to monitor what is happening, at least so as to be able to see the opt-in page, and monitor the cookie situation.

As an opted in customer I would also like to visit my own websites, and see what ends up on the logs when a Webwise infected visitor like me arrives.

I think that's an excellent idea. I'm really looking forward to reading his results.

[dav]

What we need is lots of Phorm-haters to take up the 10000 places on the trial and flood them with massively bad feedback!

[AlexanderHanff]

Any one noticed there has been no movement of Phorm stock on the markets this morning?

Alexander Hanff

[mark777]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff

Any one noticed there has been no movement of Phorm stock on the markets this morning?

Alexander Hanff

They released their results today, I don't know if trading gets suspended for the day when that happens?

[jca111]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff

Any one noticed there has been no movement of Phorm stock on the markets this morning?

Alexander Hanff

Yeah - i've noticed that in iii. But there are a load of positively spun News articles and results on there! Still saying they have "exclusive agreements" with Virgin Media - despite us all being told otherwise elsewhere! Starnge - someone is telling a half truth - but who????

Dunno why no movement either way tho.

[bigbadcol]

Phorm Inc - Final Results posted today.

The results state a lot of things as fact that we all know not to be true. From the provacy perspective, and VM state they have not yet signed a contract etc.

On frst reading the info poste don the ii site do look to be a manipulation of the market, considering the info is misleading in light of our current knowledge of the company

Maybe some mail sent to the FSA, and stock market regulator will be in order.

Can anybody help with the draft of a letter?

And Hi PhormUKPRteam, maybe you can shed some light on the marketing spin.

[jca111]

Originally Posted by mark777

They released their results today, I don't know if trading gets suspended for the day when that happens?

Not as far as I know - no reason to suspend due to 2007 results being out.

But there have been no trades so far today, last 5 trades below:

Time/Date Price Volume Trade value Type
16:23:49 09-Apr-2008 1,525.00 1,000 15,250.00 Ordinary Trade
16:11:55 09-Apr-2008 1,500.00 1,000 15,000.00 Ordinary Trade
15:47:53 09-Apr-2008 1,485.00 500 7,425.00 Ordinary Trade
15:46:00 09-Apr-2008 1,475.00 2,000 29,500.00 Ordinary Trade
15:12:08 09-Apr-2008 1,485.00 150 2,227.50 Ordinary Trade

[lucevans]

Originally Posted by manxminx

There's an excellent discussion on the BT Phorm thread re websites and webmasters. One person says:

I think that's an excellent idea. I'm really looking forward to reading his results.

Yes, it's a necessary evil if we want to prevent this rolling out: if everyone who was against it boycotted the trial, they'd have a sample group that, by-and-large, wouldn't have a clue what was happening to their web browsing (which is exactly what BT, TT and VM would like).

It has been clear (and indeed they have gone on record saying) that the ISPs are eager for people to not even notice this is happening - in my view, a very dangerous scenario.

Of course, the guinea pigs will see a one-time-only opt-in/opt-out page, but that's likely to be worded to make it sound as if all this technology does is protect you from phishing. Most average people will just click yes to get past it and go to what they were trying to see in the first place.

So will I sign-up to any future Virgin Media trial? Well, I'd have to switch browsers first...my current browser of choice is not on the Phorm whitelist apparently, so according to the BT schematic posted earlier today, I wouldn't even see the trial invitation screen. Hmmm. Tough choice.

[roadrunner69]

Originally Posted by dav

What we need is lots of Phorm-haters to take up the 10000 places on the trial and flood them with massively bad feedback!

Unfortunately they will almost certainly get a flock of sheep believing the safer internet crap spouted by the phorm spin machine.
Does anyone have any real hope that the opt-in blurb will be upfront & honest?
Think of all the 'YOUR PC IS FULL OF SPYWARE AND WE CAN FIX IT' (for a fee) crap that still scare many internet users into parting with their £.
These people are experts in the scareware bull**** so we must keep going with
educating friends, family, colleges, businesses and anyone else who will listen not to be taken in by these scammers.
(rant over)

[mark777]

Wish I had one share. Now would be a good time to sell it for a fiver.

[lucevans]

Originally Posted by bigbadcol

Phorm Inc - Final Results posted today.

The results state a lot of things as fact that we all know not to be true. From the provacy perspective, and VM state they have not yet signed a contract etc.

On frst reading the info poste don the ii site do look to be a manipulation of the market, considering the info is misleading in light of our current knowledge of the company

Maybe some mail sent to the FSA, and stock market regulator will be in order.

Can anybody help with the draft of a letter?

And Hi PhormUKPRteam, maybe you can shed some light on the marketing spin.

Could trading be suspended if the authorities strongly suspected that elements of the financial statement were inaccurate? And if so, would they have to announce the fact on trading sites like iii? It does seem rather unusual...

I've just had a thought...maybe it's something to do with the share issue that's upcoming?

[roadrunner69]

Originally Posted by mark777

Wish I had one share. Now would be a good time to sell it for a fiver.

I'd want more than that to take it off your hands

[AlexanderHanff]

One thing I find amusing which I don't think they have thought of yet, is their description (by Kent) of how the Opt-In will work.

They claim all users will be sent to a web page the first time they log in after Phorm goes live, where they will get the option to opt in. So 10 million internet subscribers around the UK (once all 3 ISP deploy) are going to be greeted with a full page spam page offering protection from Phishing and advertising. Not unlike the countless pieces of adware/spyware/malware out there that people associate as virus'. So 10 million people are going to be saying:

"WTF!!! Noooo not again!"<forces a system check with all anti-virus/adware/spyware software on their computer>

When nothing is found they will simply Opt Out thinking it is some browser hijacker that isn't in their anti-virus/adware/spyware definitions yet.

An interesting point does arise though. If they are going to be presented with the opt-in page on next login, that should be interesting. How many people regularly login and out of their broadband service? I know I don't and I have a stable line so I rarely get resets, I get uptimes of 6+ months on a session. Are the ISPs going to force a login reset on users? What if this causes problems with for example, backing up critical data at a remote location?

Alexander Hanff

[mark777]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff

An interesting point does arise though. If they are going to be presented with the opt-in page on next login, that should be interesting. How many people regularly login and out of their broadband service? I know I don't and I have a stable line so I rarely get resets, I get uptimes of 6+ months on a session. Are the ISPs going to force a login reset on users? What if this causes problems with for example, backing up critical data at a remote location?

Alexander Hanff

I assume the page will pop up the first time I open my browser after they turn it on.

So instead of getting my home-page, i've been intercepted and diverted.

Screen shot captured and off to plod with a RIPA complaint?

---------- Post added at 14:19 ---------- Previous post was at 14:05 ----------

At the register

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04..._ad_targeting/

"American ISPs already sharing data with outside ad firms"